From: mark maxwell (laughingpines@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Fri Jul 01 2005 - 20:50:35 BST
1.
Mark:
I feel very uneasy about what it means to be able to
posses anything as one's own - i am uneasy even about
self. How can a selfless person own anything?
Platt:
A selfish person places a high value on freedom for
himself and others.
Mark 1-7-05:
Hello Platt,
I did not say 'unselfish' i said selfless as in 'no
self.'
We, as relationships of sq patterns responding to, and
migrating towards DQ, may be said to 'be'. That is
'who' we are - events in the event stream.
Platt:
To say we are merely events in an event stream
denigrates the moral value of human beings, not only
on Pirsig's scale of values, but in the Founding
Fathers vision of individual human rights.
Mark 1-7-05:
I did not say we are 'merely' anything. YOU are saying
this, not me. I do not trivialise Events in the event
stream in this way.
Very much the opposite: Creativity, art, intellectual
and dynamic beauty, intellectual enquiery in general
are of the highest quality. In fact, these events are
what distinguish Humans.
The MOQ, has much to say which supports this as an
intellectual position. I am sorry if you cannot
recognise this Platt.
The founding fathers are a socialy revered myth and i
am more concerned with their intellectual climate
rather than an appeal to paternal authority. You and i
have the advantage of 200+ years of advances at our
disposal in that regard.
We may be said to 'own' that which we care about and
cultivate a mutually enriching relationship with. So,
Mr. Pirsig 'owns' 'his' motorcycle or boat because he
migrates towards DQ with them and maintains them at
their best. 'I' 'own' my guitar because i have played
it for about 20 years and it fits 'me' like that glove
in ZMM - we are old friends.
Platt:
I also cherish my possessions (I play the guitar, too)
for they grant me freedom to do many things which I
otherwise could not.
Mark 1-7-05:
I did not say i cherished my possessions. I gave a
description of ownership based upon mutually enriching
relationships.
What i do value is my ability to play a guitar i have
cultivated a quality relationship with. I wish to
extend this description and see what happens.
Platt:
Keep in mind that a slave by definition is person
denied the right to own property.
Mark 1-7-05:
A slave is owned by another Human being. That is the
definition of a slave.
I feel uneasy about owning anything that is simply
regarded as mine because i am at social liberty to
deny other people.
Those who own a great deal of land and wealth can not
possibly form caring and mutually enriching
relationships with every aspect of that which they
own, because there simply isn't enough time to be that
good with all of it.
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