Re: MD Materialism and DQ

From: Scott Roberts (jse885@cox.net)
Date: Thu Jul 21 2005 - 01:00:54 BST

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    Reinier,

    Scott previously:
    >Also, why is thinking not a direct experience?

    Reinier said: Can you think of something that you have not experienced
    first?

    Scott:
    Are you restricting the word "experience" to sense perceptions? To feelings
    or emotions? Because otherwise I do not understand your question. When I
    think of what I had for breakfast, I am having the experience of thinking.
    So in that case there are two experiences, first, eating breakfast, second
    thinking about it. With mathematics, however, the first experience is
    thinking.

    Reinier said:
    I know I can think having candle-light diner on the moon in my swimming
    trousers and I do not have experienced it, but I have experienced the moon,
    dinner, candle-light and swimming trousers.
    The correct order of things is then
    1) DQ
    2) experience/valueing
    3) SQ
    4) think about SQ

    (4) can create SQ on an intellectual level, like the MOQ, that would bring
    us back to (3), and then you can think about that some more.
    More pricely (4) always creates SQ on the intellectual level.

    Scott:
    Yes. Thinking creates SQ. That is why I consider thinking to be DQ. But I
    would also point out that thinking is experiencing/valuing. (And actually I
    do not consider DQ to be prior to SQ, but that leads off into a different
    subject.)

    Scott previously:
    >But there is a need, if one is doing metaphysics, to inquire into the
    >experience of separation and of change. For shorthand, call them 'space'
    >and
    >'time'.

    Yes, I agree with that, but we must then no forget to realize what they
    really are.
    Back to my short-list

    1) DQ
    2) experiencing/valueing
    3) SQ
    4) 'mentally creating time and space'

    Scott:
    Are you saying there was no experience of change, of "before" and "after",
    of distance, of separation, until the intellectual level arose?

    - Scott

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