Re: MD Consciousness/MOQ, definition of

From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Fri Sep 09 2005 - 14:43:22 BST

  • Next message: Matt poot: "Re: MD Katrina - Thousands Dead ?"

    Hi Ham -- (Paul mentioned)

    > Behind that facade of polite naiveté is an urge to shoot holes in my
    > theory. That's all right, Platt; I'd probably do the same if it was yours.
    > What I said was:

    I have an urge to understand. If in so doing some holes appear, I hope you
    would take that in a positive light, allowing you to plug the holes of any
    misunderstanding.

    > > Everything you experience in the world is an "other"
    > > to yourself.
    >
    > Your interrupted with:
    >
    > > Do you mean "other to yourself" as "outside my body?" No.
    > > That can't be it because I experience a lot that goes on inside
    > > my body like heart palpitations and hunger, not to mention
    > > thoughts. Do you mean I can't get outside myself to
    > > see myself? True I can't see me as others see me, but
    > > I can see me like nobody else can in the sense that I alone
    > > feel my joy, pain, guilt, love, etc.
    >
    > I include your body in the world you experience, and I treat man's
    > biological organism and all its neurological components as "otherness" in
    > my thesis. What is left is that which cannot be defined as an entity or
    > event in the physical world, namely, your awareness of a self with
    > feelings. Your last sentence says it all. Those emotions you have
    > enumerated express what I call "conditional" or relational values. They
    > paint your portrait in the hall of Essence. (How's that for an anology?)

    Love you analogy! OK. You identify the "I" that knows me as nonphysical
    awareness. I presume such awareness is also characteristic of all life
    forms, but not nonlife forms like protons and atoms and such. Is that
    correct?

    Your further explained:

    > Let me say in closing that the single, most important concept I'm trying to
    > get across to all of you is that some form of Awareness is the basis of all
    > reality, including its essential source.

    OK. Without awareness, no reality. Does that mean if there is no awareness
    of a physical object or event, the object or event doesn't exist? If so,
    how does that different from philosophical Idealism which I understand to
    mean there are no "real objects" behind our perceptions.

    As I said, I need to go at this one little step at a time, Ham. Later, I
    will ask what is the source of awareness and what that has to do with
    nothingness. But, please. One thing at a time. For now, I need to know
    whether you repudiate, like Paul, the prior assumption of an
    appearance/reality distinction.

    Thanks so much for your patience.

    Best,
    Platt
     

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Sep 09 2005 - 16:08:46 BST