From: Arlo J. Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Thu Sep 15 2005 - 04:00:38 BST
"Experience is value". Platt says "yes". I agree.
However, I think in this tangental discussion you've forgotten the MOQ
hierarchy, and somehow conflated "experience" with "the experience of social
humans". I take this from Platt's charge as to how we answer the charge of
Idealism, namely that "our" experience "creates" reality.
It doesn't.
Inorganic "value" creates inorganic patterns. As atoms respond to the value they
perceive, they create patterns that are later described in our social-level
semiotic (language) as "atoms" or "molecules" or "H20".
Cells, for an example on the next level, respond to biological quality, and so
create patterns that our social-level semiotic describes as "our body".
Let me stop here, momentarily. If there was no "man", no semiotically created
social "locus" such as "Platt" or "Arlo" there would still be inorganic and
biological patterns of quality. On there respective levels, atoms, cells, etc
would still respond to Quality, still form patterns, still "exist". Indeed, an
"electron" is simply a name for an inorganic pattern of value. Whether "social
level beings" name it or not, it would still exist.
The world is not created by "social man", only social level values of "the
world". This is much different from Idealism which states, as I understand it,
that an inorganic pattern of value would not exist unless observed by a social
level "individual".
According to my reading of the MOQ, in this example, the inorganic pattern would
exist, but our labeling, say "rock" would not. Thus, "rocks" only exist at the
social semiotic level, but the undergirding inorganic patterns would most
certainly continue to exist in the absence of the Great and Glorious Man. They
just wouldn't be semiotically named.
Having said this, "experience" on the social and intellectual level also creates
existence, when seen from the point of view of same-level patterns. Social
level patterns, ("Arlo", "Platt", "I", "you") create existence on the social
level by virtue of responding to Quality on the social level, the same way
cells create biological patterns by responding to Quality on the biological
level.
Thus, "social" existence is a product of "man's" experience. But biological and
inorganic patterns are not. You can extrapolate this to the Intellectual level
as well.
To sum, "Idealism" presuposes that social man's value creates Intellectual,
social, biological and inorganic existance. According to the MOQ, social value
only "creates" social level patterns. Biological value and inorganic value,
which have nothing to do with man's "awareness" (or any of the buzzwords for
the Great "I") are not dependant on our (social level) experience. Atoms formed
elements long before "we" experienced them. Cells created "biological beings"
long before "we" experienced them.
"We" only bring social level patterns into existence, and by virtue of a
collective, Intellectual patterns on the next MOQ level as well.
That is the answer to Idealism.
Arlo
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