From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Tue Oct 18 2005 - 18:20:18 BST
Anthony.
11 Oct. you wrote:
> Bo, the greater context of the MOQ is Quality itself. Again, I have
> to remind you that you’re incorrectly conflating the metaphysical map
> that is the MOQ with reality itself. I do agree that some theories
> don’t have references to themselves but a metaphysics – by definition
> being a map of all reality - must have a place for itself within
> reality. Otherwise it isn’t a metaphysics!
Thanks for spending so much time on this issue Ant, but I have
begun to doubt if it will bring us anywhere. When you argue
against the SOL you argue against ZMM and LILA (as I see it),
and when I argue for it, I argue against Pirsig (as you see it).
Mike sees the value of having a 4th level that meets the static
requirements, Ian sees something fishy about the social-
intellectual relationship.
> I guess that if Pirsig had written ZMM after LILA,
But he did write ZMM first and the succession shows the
development from Phaedrus to the more careful Pirsig who wrote
about him. Yet, while writing ZMM Pirsig was still sympathetic
and rendered his ideas truthfully - for instance the diagram that
shows intellect as the S/O generator. In LILA however a small
discrepancy between the value LEVEL and "intellect" in the
traditional sense as mind enters and in some Lila's Child
annotations the chasm widens.
> he possibly would
> have referred to the particular form of Western “rationality”
> discussed in ZMM as “SOM rationality” to emphasise the fact that it’s
> only one manifestation of rationality, not the whole show.
Maybe he would, but look: What ZMM describes is the
emergence of what is called SOM, this is in conflict with
something he calls Aretê that the ancient "Iliad" heroes display
(forget the Sophists for a while) How is this to be understood in a
MOQ retrospect if not as intellectual value's emergence from -
and suppression of social value. As said in LILA:
Perhaps in Homer’s time, when evolution had not yet
transcended the social level into the intellectual ...etc.
From this it can be derived that SOM is the emerging intellectual
value that challenges the (till then) ruling social value, SOM is
not an idea of an idea-producing intellect, rather intellect being
the mind/matter divide itself. Only afterwards has it hypnotized us
into believing that idea-producing is it's "nature". It's crucial for
intellect to maintain this illusion lest it will de-masked.
This is all for now, it's a shame to ignore the rest of your great
post, but I just wonder how you see ZMM's Greek part in a MOQ
retrospect?
Bo
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