From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sun Oct 30 2005 - 16:02:08 GMT
> [Platt]
> Advertising proclaims freedom, the highest value of all. Plain and simple.
>
> [Arlo]
> Welcome to Platt-land, eh? I'm sure you believe this, but for the record it
> defies any and all other views, from Wikipedia to university courses to
> Wall Street. Even advertisers in their research admit the simple
> proclamation that advertising is value manipulation. To quote Wikipedia, it
> is akin in its tactics to propaganda.
Advertising, besides being an aspect of free speech, is an integral part
of the free enterprise system that has created the highest standard of
living in the world. Unless you prefer to live like Zambians, you ought to
celebrate, not trash, advertising and the system it reflects.
> [Arlo]
> Sure, I didn't say advertising was value determination. It is value
> manipulation, and works as Wikipedia says "like propaganda".
A distinction without a difference.
> For a long time I've found a simple forumlae works, the more a product is
> advertised, the lower its innate Quality.
>
> As DM stated, a product with "high Quality" doesn't need advertising, it
> creates its own demand and sells itself. A product with "low Quality" needs
> hype and the "value add" of advertising to "syrup" it over with an
> association of "Quality".
Tell that to companies who produced such high quality products as All-Clad
cookware, Anderson windows, Apple iPods and thousands of others. And don't
tell me Harley-Davidson doesn't advertise. Their website contains the
screaming headline: "Embrace the thrill of the great unknown."
> [Platt to my call for truth in adverstising, and courses illuminating the
> manipulative effects of advertising] Yes, you would love to see courses
> attacking capitalism and the free enterprise system, not to mention free
> speech. For a better educational lesson, let's send the kids to Cuba for a
> semester to give them an idea of a country that's full of Quality because
> it prohibits advertising. :-)
>
> [Arlo]
> I take it in Platt-land the courses would be how unquestionably great
> American corporations are, and how everyone should blindly and uncritically
> continue to be good little consumers.
In Platt-land there would be no biting of the hand that feeds you, i.e.
the free enterprise system that funds schools and pays teachers' salaries
and benefits.
.
> So, you reject the idea that McDonald's should have to display real
> pictures of its products in its ads. Why?
What about the pictures is not real?
> And what would be wrong with teaching kids the Wikipedia entry for
> "advertising"?
I have no objection to teaching kids how to use an encyclopedia. I would
teach them, however, to spot opinions vs. facts in all source material.
> [Platt]
> P.S. Speaking of Marxists, a book on Mao just published called "Mao-The
> Untold Story" begins with this sentence: "Mao Tse-tung, who for decades
> held absolute power over the lives of one quarter of the world's
> population, was responsible for well over 70 million deaths in peacetime,
> more than any other twentieth-century leader." Wasn't Mao a hero to many
> 60's hippies? As I recall, Mao's "Little Red Book" was an icon of that age.
>
> [Arlo]
> Where are all the Native Americans, Platt? Oh, wait, that's right, they
> just killed themselves off to make room on the continent for us. Not only
> dictators can preside over extermination.
You mean there were no war-like Indians? "Primitive tribes such as the
American Indians have no record of sweetness and cooperation with other
tribes. They ambushed them, tortured them, dashed their children's brains
out on rocks." (Lila, 24).
> And as for the associative plug,
> let me know where in Marx you read support for the actions of Mao (or
> Stalin)? Marx did call for a revolution, yes. But not to empower a Mao. But
> if your reading of Marx indicates otherwise, just tell me where.
In the Communist Manifesto: "Of course, in the beginning, this (the
revolution) cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads . . ."
You really ought to become familiar with the founding document of the anti-
capitalist agenda you support. :-)
Platt
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