From: Arlo Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Wed Nov 02 2005 - 22:10:23 GMT
[Platt]
What is made up about advertising, free speech and the free enterprise
system?. Do you deny the connection?
[Arlo]
That "free speech" is often invoked to manipulate others, not at all. As
I've said, what I'm for is educating the public on the "source of their
values", which often come from advertisers whose goal is to manipulate your
valuing of their product.
But let's back-up a bit, if we can, to a broader question. The perspective
I am coming from is this. In ZMM, the crisis arose as a result of an
"amoral" (in the sense of an inability to see value) metaphysics that has
been given a dominant cultural position. The modes of production and
consumption currently dominating society evolved as a result of this same
amoral intellect. Pirsig's "goal" in ZMM, was give people a dialogue,
centered on Quality, that would enable them to overcome the amoral
production and consumption manifest in the culture.
Backing up one step further, I see the "amoral" SOM dominance to be
manifest across cultural activity.
From all our posts, I can't see where you see this crisis as having any
effect on society, except perhaps to produce "liberals". I'm not kidding.
My feeling is that if you were to describe your MOQ-based world, a world in
which the MOQ is the guiding metaphysics, read and understood by everyone,
the ONLY change you'd point out is that "all liberals would disappear".
I'm suggesting that advertising as we know it would significantly change,
because the manipulative effects of advertising would be useless on a MOQ
society. People would have a language to critically assess value, something
Pirsig started with ZMM. The would see through the "stylized syrup" with
clarity, having a cultural means to see Quality. In short, if John
Sutherland has since read and accepted ZMM, my guess is that he's rethought
his position on the shim, to one where he sees the Quality inherent in the
shim, and not in the veneer of style applied to "Official Shim Products".
What are the ill-effects of SOM in society? Why should we argue for a
"better" perspective? Pirsig had several keen insights in ZMM, of which I
agree, on why a Quality-rooted language would improve people's lives. From
the realignment of labor practice, to better consumer products, to better
consumption, the defects created in production and consumption by SOM is
outlined and challenged. You deny this, saying there are no defects in
production and consumption. I'm saying Pirsig was correct. The effects of
SOM were culturally spread throughtout all forms of activity.
[Platt]
The value of free speech trumps any material values you claim are being
manipulated to society's detriment.
[Arlo]
Was Pirsig against "free speech" when he criticized the "junk" in
production and consumption in America? Not at all. In fact, he was for
expanding speech to include Quality. That would be the solution I'd
support. And in this world, manipulative advertising would go "out the
window".
[Platt]
You use the word "manipulation" as if the average person is a puppet on a
string, incapable of independent judgment. I object to this elitist
characterization of the masses as being inherently stupid.
[Arlo]
Of course you do. Even though I am saying nothing different than you.
People are "too busy" (your words) to look into the source of their morals.
My statement that people are "too busy" to look into the source of their
values is an identical statement. Like Pirsig, I believe that no one is
stupid, merely cast in a culture without a language for recognizing
Quality. Like Pirsig, I believe that anyone appropriating "Quality" as the
source of the world would easily see the defects of the culture, the way
Pirsig did, the way many do.
Look, I know the tactic of accusation here (espousing that Arlo thinks
everyone is stupid) is a common tactic on right-wing radio, but let's drop
it here, okay? Everyone knows its just a red herring that is not only
OPPOSITE of what I say, but merely an attempt to distract. I don't accuse
you of this stuff, so don't try to use these tactics on me, okay?
[Arlo]
That phrase, "learning strange poses of style and glamour vended by dream
magazines and other mass media, and paid for by the vendors of substance",
nails it on the head. Pirsig saw it. And although Platt tries to deny it, I
think Pirsig was on the mark.
[Platt]
This is nothing more than a repeat of the T.S. Eliot's "Wasteland" that was
highly popular in colleges lit departments in the 50's when it was consider
the height of intellectual acumen to sneer at so called "consumerism." I
see that nothing has changed much since then.
[Arlo]
Well, you're right about the fact that nothing's changed. But I'm siding
with Pirsig on this. I don't think he was duped by 50's lit departments. I
think this observation is right in line with his thinking on Quality.
Indeed, that line could be the summation for ZMM's entire thesis. People
had no language to see Quality, it having been torn apart from production
and consumption, and replaced with syruped style, Quality was regulated to
the tinsel on the tree, rather than seeing that Quality was the source of
the tree itself.
I'll get to the rest of the post tomorrow...
Arlo
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