Re: MD Re: Quality, subjectivity and the 4th level

From: Arlo J. Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Fri Nov 25 2005 - 06:27:59 GMT

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "Re: MD 4th level - The more autonomous level."

    [Arlo previously]
    Others include, the law of gravity, calculus, Quantum Physics, semiotics, etc.
    Hardly "individual vs group" values. Indeed, they are the collective product of
    group activity, essentially socially constructed ideas. Hardly "individual
    values".

    [Platt]
    These are "collective" socially constructed ideas? Hardly. Someone, an
    individual, was first. The rest, often reluctantly, followed.

    [Arlo]
    And without the "collective consciousness of all communicating mankind" (Pirsig)
    coming before (or perhaps better, "co-occuring") the "individual", without the
    historical dialogue that is language, that individual would hardly be able to
    do anything, let alone create Calculus.

    Calculus is a socially constructed idea, created over historical time by
    "individuals" immersed in the "collective consciousness", accessing its stored
    treasures, engaging in temporal and local dialogue, and appropriating its
    filters (or "grid") to conceptualize and categorize experience (through the
    ventriloquation of historical dialogues).

    Without this, your Randian "individual" is naught but a lump of cells. No
    calculus, no MOQ, no Platt, no Arlo. Unless "you" are nothing more than your
    body. Everything you are in your head you are because of dialectical blending
    of the "collective consciousness" and your "proprietary experience". From this
    "blending" emerges Intellectual level ideas such as Calculus and Quantum
    Physics.

    As Pirsig says, "Descartes' "I think therefore I am" was a historically
    shattering declaration of independence of the intellectual level of evolution
    from the social level of evolution, but would he have said it if he had been a
    seventeenth century Chinese philosopher? If he had been, would anyone in
    seventeenth century China have listened to him and called him a brilliant
    thinker and recorded his name in history? If Descartes had said, "The
    seventeenth century French culture exists, therefore I think, therefore I am,"
    he would have been correct.""

    "The seventeenth century French culture exists, therefore I think, therefore I
    am," he would have been correct."

    Absolutely.

    Arlo

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