From: Elizaphanian (elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Sun Jun 08 2003 - 16:45:31 BST
Hi David,
> dmb says:
> The accumulation of virtues? Hmmm. I don't know about that, but I'm pretty
> sure that Pirsig's assertions about the nature of dharma go way beyond
> anything like the construction of individuals. The very next paragraphs...
<snip>
> "The physical order of the universe is also the moral order of the universe.
> RTA is both. This was exactly what the MOQ was claiming. It was not a new
> idea. It was the oldest idea known to man."
I didn't see why this was in conflict with my argument. (I did re-read that passage before posting!)
> dmb:
> The Eudaimonic MOQ says yes? Are you suggesting that Pirsig's MOQ doesn't
> also say yes? Its a quote from Lila, no?
Yes, that is precisely my argument. It is a quote from ZMM.
> dmb:
> I honestly don't think you'll find any informed persons who think emotion
> plays no cognitive function. This is another area where developmental
> psychology has lots to say. (We can only expect so much from a dictionary.)
Well.... I think you and I have had very different experiences. But I agree that developmental
psychology has much to say.
> Its interesting to note that emotional trauma in the early stages can
> forever disrupt or impede the higher cognitive functions. Its not a
> developmental stage we can skip or avoid, at least not without paying a big
> price. Feelings, wishes and emotions certainly involve conitive functions,
> and they are an essential part of the overall maturation process. But they
> are of of different sort than intellect.
Can you expand on that last sentence?
> I guess it depends on what, exactly, the word "emotion" means to you. But in
> the normal sense of the word, they are something that adults learn to
> control and manage for higher purposes. Not that we can avoid them, we just
> learn how to better deal with them. I'm sure you know that teaching such
> control a huge part of raising children. As a adults we can sort out our
> feelings as a means of self-examination. They stay with us and guide us even
> in our mature lives, but that doesn't mean they're intellectual level
> values. It just means that intellectuals have feelings too.
Which seems to me that you are, in a much more sophisticated way, arguing that emotions are
impediments to cognitive functioning. Which is what I'm objecting to. To reassure me that you're not
(if you want to) why don't you spell out how and why you see emotions as having a cognitive role?
Cheers
Sam
"Phaedrus is fascinated too by the description of the motive of 'duty toward self' which is an
almost exact translation of the Sanskrit word 'dharma', sometimes described as the 'one' of the
Hindus. Can the 'dharma' of the Hindus and the 'virtue' of the Ancient Greeks be identical?" - The
Eudaimonic MoQ says yes. "Lightning hits!"
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