Re: MD Free Will

From: Joe (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon Jun 09 2003 - 21:09:00 BST

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    On 7 June 2003 Scott writes:

    Hi Scott, August and All,

    Scott:
    I am saying that I do not distinguish an "I" from the choices (and all other
    events occurring in what I call "my mind", such as the "not
    distinguishing").

    > In this view, the word "I" is to be considered only as what linguists call
    > anaphora: the locating in space and time of where the saying,
    > distinguishing, choosing occurs.

    The word "exist" means to "stand out". In that sense I exist (my body can be
    seen, what I say can be heard). But I do not assume that I have what
    Buddhists call self-existence: any sort of permanence. To think otherwise is
    to be a dualist: there is an "I" and there is the choice.

    But to think that I am only a location of mental events would seem to be
    contradicted by memory, or more generally, continuity. When I wake up in the
    morning, I "remember who I am". Or I can hear a note of a song. If there is
    no continuous "I" what makes it possible that I hear the whole note, and not
    feel 440 changes a second of air pressure? Or how can I distinguish one
    change in air pressure -- that is, there had to be a state of low pressure,
    then a state of high pressure. How did the two states get connected? (To say
    the brain connects them just pushes the problem into the brain: the nerve
    cells are in one state then another, and maybe there is another nerve cell
    that only gets excited when those two other states occur. So what detects
    the difference between an excited nerve cell and an unexcited one? Only
    another nerve cell.)

    > If space and time are fundamental, there is no way they can get connected.
    > Yet they are connected. Therefore, space and time are not fundamental.
    > Otherwise, one has to say that in every perceptive act I transcend space
    and
    > time. But to do so puts us back in dualism: there is a non-spatio-temporal
    I
    > that has the power to observe spatio-temporal events.

    Well, that's no good, so what I think is the case is that the act
    ofobservation creates the spatio-temporality of events. And, to avoid
    solipsism, the same act creates the "I". Likewise, the choice creates the
    particular typed words and the "I". (That is, the solipsist can say that I
    create the events, while what I am suggesting is that what we call "things
    and events" are all fundamentally non-spatio-temporal and it is the act of
    observation that turns them into spatio-temporal things and events. For what
    it's worth, this also provides a consistent interpretation of quantum
    weirdness.).

    joe: I am trying to describe an instinctive sensing of reality, which is a
    way of knowing the indefinable. In that description I must distinguish
    between Patterns which are created by dq static latching to sq, and Patterns
    of the indefinable which are generated by a mystical, artistic sense. How
    can I distinguish them? "Free Will" or "Free association" is the
    distinguishing mark of a mystical or artistic capability.

    In every patern there is dq and sq. In the mystical artistic pattern the dq
    is a part of the individual knower's pattern. Existence is indefinable and
    is only an aspect of a pattern unless I accept infinite regression. I can
    define "existence" as "standing out" only by a metaphor to my own
    indefinable "existence", which is then included in a pattern of "existence."

    Is the gravity field generated by a body indefinable? Yes, since it cannot
    be separated from the fody. Yet I know it as a force, and I artistically
    describe it with mathematics.

    Purpose is a specific direction to a force, and DNA generates an indefinable
    "purpose" in an indefinable "gravity". In a way the organic level can be
    artistically described as "anti-gravity" not in the sense that it is not
    subject to gravity, but in the sense that it adds another indefinable
    existence to gravity, namely towards a specific goal.

    For the mystical, artistic sense, I propose a field generated by DNA called
    "awareness". For an instinctive sensing of reality there have to be
    separate brains to intuit the indefinable. In the inorganic order there is
    only one movement to gravity. In the organic order there is one brain
    adding a knowledge of purpose to the movement of gravity. In the social
    order there are two brains adding a knowledge of purpose and existence to
    the movement of gravity. In the intellectual order there are three brains
    adding a knowledge of purpose, existence, and quality creating patterns in
    awareness and memory to the movement of gravity.

    It is easy to become confused and shift between points of view when
    discussing the indefinable moral orders and "free will".

    "I" my awareness.

    "my mind" Pattern of my awareness.

    "not distinguishing" No difference between a pattern generated by
    knowledge, and one generated by the mystical, artistic sense in awareness
    and memory.

    "exist" "stand out" Mystical, artistic patterns.

    "remember who I am" Pattern of awareness and the different brains.

    "things and events" patterns combined by a mystical, artistic sense of the
    awareness and memory, distinguished by knowledge of quality from different
    sources.

    Joe

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