From: Valence (valence10@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Jul 10 2003 - 23:57:51 BST
Hey Johnny,
Almost missed this one...
J
> So someone argued that... There is nothing in my state law that says it
is
> a legal addendum to rape statutes. I don't know if they are as they were
> written back in 1787, but I don't see why they would have taken out the
part
> that specified it was only an ammendment to rape statues. You're grasping
> at straws there.
R
I don't think I am. Making something an addendum to another statute can be
as subtle as simply giving it a certain code in a larger statutory title
scheme or can be implied be implied by previously existing restrictions in
the common law. The point is, the history is murky at best, and the Bowers
opinion, which relied upon a highly erroneous telling of that murky history
could not be sustained (even Scalia admitted that the Bowers history was
wrong in many respects). Another basis would have to be found for deciding
the issue, substantive due process was the alternative basis.
J
I think you should admit
> that the framers didn't intend to make sodomy un-criminalizable (is there
a
> better word for that?), nor did the 14th amendment writers.
R
To be sure, I doubt they ever really even thought about it...why would they?
Such prosecutions were virtually unheard of in their day and strict evidence
laws made their success all but impossible. But they were very concerned
with liberty and the rights of individuals, so if they had deliberately
considered it, it's hard to guess what they would have said. (oh yeah,
'un-criminalizable' is definitely not a word... i'm not sure if there is a
single word that means "cannot be proscribed by criminal law"... but i'll
ask around).
J
> There were prosecutions for consensual sodomy all along throughout
history.
R
<sigh> Well, if you have evidence to this effect, your research skills are
better than those of the lawyers who represented the state of Texas (as well
as those of Justices Scalia, Thomas and Rehnquist). Maybe you should write
a book.
Anyway, just to close this thread down with some rhetorical style, I'd like
to end with a thought from the most respected of all the founders, the
father of our country and our first president, George Washington: "As
Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those
who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally
entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America
among the foremost nations of justice and liberality."
That's what our father wanted for us, and what our framers intended.
take care
rick
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