From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sat Jul 12 2003 - 17:31:42 BST
Erin all MOQers:
Erin wrote:
I know this hierarchy has been compared to Maslow's self-actualization/
hierarchy of needs, where lower needs need to be met for further needs. I
mean supposedly the unabomber was an intelligent mathematician but he's not
really on my top 10 list of most moral people,...
dmb says:
The unabomber, I think, pretty well demonstrates what Maslow and so many
others have found. Although he was brilliant in some ways, the man was also
quite damaged. As an infant he was stuck with an illness that prevented all
human contact for an extended period of time. Certain basic emotional needs
went unmet in a critical developmental period. Its no accident that one
damaged by isolation should find himself alone in woods or that he should
have adopted such a malicious attitude toward society in general. He's
damaged goods and can't even rightly adopt social values, let alone
intellectual values. He was living in a world of static patterns all his
own. He was nuts.
Erin asked:
1) would you put the Unabomber as 4th level dominated?
2) how does MoQ distinguish somebody who is dominated by intellectual values
with lower levels neglected vs dominated by intellectual values with lower
levels being met
3)how in general does a hierarchy deal with balance
dmb's two cents:
1) No. I'd file him in the "mentally ill" category.
2) Pirsig doesn't put it in terms of needs being met, as Maslow would, but
he asserts the necessity by describing this hierarchy as a "matter of fact
evolutionary relationship". More specifically, his criticisms of SOM include
this assertion as something SOM fails to see properly, especially the way
the intellectual level depends upon and is preceeded by social values.
3) If I get the question, Pirsig's answer seems to have to do with the way
we put the lower level patterns to sleep, be a "dead man" and all that, as
we move through the levels and become more and more dynamic. Its similar to
the idea of moving up the chakras, mastering more and more as development
unfolds.
Erin wondered:
Just curious what picture people *see* when thinking about this.
dmb imagines:
Pirsig is doing metaphysics, but his picture of things is quite consistent
with the findings of developmental psychology. Wilber has informed my
imagination on this matters. His books really seems to bridge the gap
between metaphysics and the more specific psychological issues. Like Pirsig,
he's painting a picture of "everything" as a dynamic evolutionary process,
but gets into far more detail in terms in cognitive development.
Thanks.
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Jul 12 2003 - 17:32:36 BST