From: SQUONKSTAIL@aol.com
Date: Sat Aug 23 2003 - 17:41:05 BST
Because I feel like taking things out of context and commenting on them (like
other people I know):
Squonk said:
Phaedrus was asked if he was teaching Quality. This made him reflect upon
Quality and he discovered that it is primary reality. Subjects and objects then
become aesthetic creations of the intellect. They are human inventions.
Matt:
Squonk says Pirsig "discovered" that Quality is the primary reality.
sq: That is very naughty of you Matt. If i bring Quality to the attention of
another individual, and if that individual, having had Quality brought to
their attention by me then moves on to see that Quality points to the universal,
then the individual who sees Quality as that which points to the Universal may
be said to have discovered, for themselves. Of course, being universal,
Quality is seen by other individuals to be harmonious in its aesthetic description
of the Universal.
This obfuscates an important point of Pirsig's, one that is brought out in
both the new annotations ("'common sense' which is A SET OF IDEAS...") and in
ZMM in both the "analogues on top of analogues" argument at the end and the
"ghosts of rationality" argument in the beginning. Not only are subjects and
object aesthetic creations of the intellect, human inventions, but so is the idea
of Quality.
squonk: Yes, Quality is an invention, but the term Quality points to the
pre-intellectual source of aesthetic harmony. We could use another invented term,
like Boogaloo? But as Quality has exceptionally wide appeal and is also
understood to have enormous significance, i feel Quality is better than Boogaloo.
"Laws of nature are human inventions, like ghosts. Laws of logic, of
mathematics are also human inventions, like ghosts. The whole blessed thing is a human
invention, including the idea that it isn't a human invention." (ZMM, p. 36)
Pirsig myth number #1: Pirsig discovered Quality.
squonk: He discovered Quality for himself when another asked him if he was
teaching Quality. Pirsig has considered other terms instead of Quality, but
Quality has allot going for it as a term even scientists agree as being valid.
Harmonious aesthetic again.
I think pushed up against a wall, it is pretty clear that Pirsig's handed in
his discoverty metaphors.
Matt
squonk: i do not know what discoverty means? Is it a better metaphor than
Boogaloo?
All the best,
squonk
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Aug 23 2003 - 17:41:46 BST