Re: MD Forked tongue

From: Platt Holden (
Date: Thu Aug 28 2003 - 13:56:06 BST

  • Next message: Paul Turner: "RE: MD Where things end."

    Dear Wim,

    Wonderful to see you back contributing to the site. We often disagree,
    but it wouldn't be as stimulating and fun if we didn't.

    > It seems to me that evolution (at any level) is a pattern explainable by
    > the interplay of good static latches and dynamic breaks from those
    > latches that only leave a lasting impression if that what breaks free
    > finds a 'better latch'.

    A nice description of the MOQ view of evolution.

    > No 'concept' of any kind plays any role in the
    > explanation.

    You have used MOQ "concepts" in your explanation. I don't see how you
    can explain anything without concepts guiding your the explanation.
    Evolution itself is a concept.

    > Evolution not being guided by a concept or purpose of
    > 'betterness' does NOT rule out the possibility that evolution DOES lead
    > to 'betterness', depending on how one defines 'better'. Including
    > something like 'survival' (measurable only as 'resulting from
    > evolution') in the definition of 'better' would lead to a circular
    > argument, however.

    Using MOQ concepts, and Paul's interpretation, evolution does lead to
    "betterness" because the universe evolves from a condition of limited
    responses to Dynamic Quality to progressively diverse responses. I've
    always thought of evolution as essentially being increases in awareness
    or consciousness. To broaden awareness or expand consciousness is
    better than than being stuck with, for instance, the sentience of a
    worm wouldn't you agree?

    > By the way, in my experience getting out of bed in the morning hardly
    > ever requires a purpose. Usually it's a habitual reaction to either an
    > alarm or a full bladder.

    Habit or not, your purpose is to relieve a full bladder or stop the
    annoying alarm.

    > Some people (like me) need purpose and Meaning
    > in order not to become too suicidal. Others are more in need of fun and
    > happiness in their lives. Neither type usually spends much energy on
    > making a decision whether or not to get out of bed today by reasoning
    > whether or not it will serve a given purpose or bring more happiness.

    Purposeful behavior doesn't require reasoning. In this regard I often think
    of an observation made by Nobel prize winner Konrad Lorenz: "What the
    organism learns about its environment can be expressed by the simple
    phrase, "It's better here" or "It's not so good here."

    Finally, what does Pirsig say about purpose and evolution? From Chap.
    30, Lila:

    "Dhrama is Quality itself, the principle of rightness which gives
    structure and purpose to the evolution of all life and to the evolving
    understanding of the universe which life has created."

    Best regards,

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