From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Sep 21 2003 - 14:23:05 BST
Hi DMB
I would say that Rorty is trying to escape
using the subject-object divide to devalue either
side, so to expect him to say merely 'subjective'
or imply this is off mark. For a pragmatist talk
about anything has as much status as we give it within
our talking communities. You might think this leaves us
trying to find our feet on nothing, I would probably agree, but when he
objects any objective truth we could
all agree on, he clearly drops labelling anything as merely
subjective. With such a strong rejection being voiced you
really should go and read him. I agree with what you are rejecting, but very
rarely think that it applies very well to Rorty. I want to go beyond Rorty,
but it depends where
you are starting from. At one time Rorty played a big part in moving me
along to where I am now. For me he is on the road from where we are to
somewhere better.
dmb says:
Exactly. It seems to take all the most interesting things about being human
and either rejects outright or relegates them to the private sphere. It
breaks my heart a little bit. Its brittle and cold.
DM: Yes, I would like to see the private sphere as no longer being a ghetto
for life.
I think this goes hand in hand with some extra democracy, like democracy in
the
work place. And lower working hours, more participation, more stable
communities.
Regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Glendinning" <ian@psybertron.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: MD A metaphysics
> David, David and Matt, ..
>
> DMB said
> I'm only asking you to explain what you post here. Why is that such a
> difficult point to grasp? Why should it bother you....Pulling teeth is a
> breeze by
> comparison.
>
> Ian says
> Remember our "I don't do long mails" spat, DMB ? I don't do long
dialectical
> arguments, etc ?
>
> I think this is my Catch22 again (What ? I hear you say).
> I said I owed you an essay, but for now
> I genuinely believe it is difficult (for some of us at least) to apply
> simple (logical, dialectical, SOMist) rationale to argue pragmatist /
MoQist
> points. It's very frustrating, and no doubt sounds like a cop out,
arrogant
> even, but I'm genuine. I'm sure Matt is genuine too, just frustrated
> perhaps.
>
> Ian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
> [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of David Buchanan
> Sent: 21 September 2003 00:55
> To: 'moq_discuss@moq.org'
> Subject: RE: MD A metaphysics
>
>
> Matt and all:
>
> DMB had said:
> How do my repeated pleas for ordinary language make me look arrogant?
> ...Should I really have to read a set of books simply to carry on a
> conversation? No, that's not reasonable.
>
> Matt replied:
> Is it reasonable that an adult trying to carry on an adult conversation
> about basketball should have to repeatedly, over and over again, explain
in
> simplistic terms the rules of basketball to a child because the child
wants
> to participate? ...I've tried to play the teacher...,I'm just not offering
> Phil 101 this semester.
>
> dmb said:
> This analogy is excessively insulting, but that's not what bothers me. I'm
> not asking you to teach philosophy 101, I'm only asking you to explain
what
> you post here. Why is that such a difficult point to grasp? Why should it
> bother you. I'm always happy to explain what I mean and so is most
everyone
> else. It seems like you're incapable of expressing yourself and fly into a
> narcissistic rage whenever you're asked to do so. You should take your own
> advice. If you don't want to even try to explain things in terms
accessable
> to non-Rortyites then just ignore me. Why bother with the insults? I've
> tried to import some critics of Rorty just so you can see that I'm not
> entirely alone with my questions, but you usually just end up insulting
them
> too. As the lurkers have so recently suggested, jargon only puts people
off.
> It locks them out. I honestly don't know why this obvious point so elusive
> to you. Is it just a matter of pride at this point? You won't do it just
> because it is ME asking you to do it? C'mon, Matt. Put your ego in the
> freezer for a night, will you? Jeeez. Pulling teeth is a breeze by
> comparison.
>
>
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