From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed Oct 15 2003 - 22:52:28 BST
Matt
Just to cheer you up, I believe you partly, I agree that Pirsig slips up
here
and there and looks like an essentialist, and this goes against trying to
get
quality/dynamic concept/becoming back into philosophy, but they are slips
not commitments,
but I have no problem with doing metaphysics like Pirsig, having read a lot
of
Nietzsche, Heidegger, Rorty, Derrida and post-modernism I think when they
attack
metaphysics that are attacking a couple of forms of metaphysics, the sort of
metaphysics that seek certainty, correspondence, an unmediated presence, and
therefore
banish openness/freedom/change. However, and this is very clear in
Nietzsche's attack
on being in the name of becoming, there is a case for a form of metaphysics
that merges
these two into be(com)ing. This, to me, looks alot like quality(sq/dq). Its
a type of metaphysics that
puts openness centre stage, that asserts the endless embellishment of
reality, that sounds a great deal like
pragmatism, post-modernism, Cupitt, but instead of basing its position on a
demonstration of slipperyness
actually adopts it as a principle. It ties in very nicely with quantum
theory to literary ironism, but it also
has the possibility of dojng some nice
religious/mystic/sacred/universal/public/unifying work and get us
out of that sad old private interests world of isolated pragmatists. Damn,
did I say I was trying to agree
with you. You heard it here first, maybe, next big thing in philosophy all
things post/non-secular. Or how about
Physics, Phenomenology and God.
regards
David Morey
----- Original Message -----
From: "MATTHEW PAUL KUNDERT" <mpkundert@students.wisc.edu>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: MD Begging the Question, Moral Intuitions, and Answering the
Nazi, Part III
> Hey Steve,
>
> Steve said:
> "I really don't buy that. If you're not talking about the world then what
could you be talking about? See below."
>
> and
>
> "I don't see how a pragmatist who "don't make assumptions" could possibly
explain anything since we established that reasoning must begin with
assumptions. It would seem that pragmatism as you describe it can only be a
negative philosophy. All it seems to be good for is saying, "Hey, you're
not being a good pragmatist" (or "you're begging the question.")"
>
> Matt:
> I think there is some confusion about what it means to be a pragmatist.
First, you are right, the pragmatism that Rorty espouses is almost
exclusively a negative philosophy. This isn't a strike against pragmatism
because it doesn't make you choose between the negative philosopher (Rorty)
and the positive philosopher (Pirsig). Second, the pragmatist doesn't say
"don't make assumptions" because you are right, we couldn't possibly explain
anything without them. All reasoning needs them. Third, I am talking about
the world, I'm just not attempting to say how it _really_ is. I'm just
attempting to cope with it.
>
> The pragmatist makes a distinction between trying to get at the way the
world _really_ is through language or other means and simply trying to cope
with the world, trying to survive and perhaps some other private things. If
you don't make a distinction, if you think everybody has a metaphysics, if
you think that everybody makes assumptions about the way the world _really_
is whether they like it or not, then you can't engage with the pragmatist in
an argument because the two of you don't have a crucial assumption in
common.
>
> But, again, I didn't really want to talk ad nauseum about pragmatism and
Rorty, I wanted to discuss them within Pirsig and what it means for Pirsig.
Nobody seems to want to believe me.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
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