From: Nathan Pila (pila@sympatico.ca)
Date: Tue Oct 28 2003 - 21:14:14 GMT
David,
A statement is true if it conforms with and is congruent with what our
senses tells us.
If I tell you that it is raining outside, and you look and see puddles and
rain drops then you would accept that my claim is true. N'est pas?
Nathan
----- Original Message -----
From: "David MOREY" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: MD What makes an idea dangerous?
> Hi
>
> Maybe we can shift this argument about truth to
> one about epistemology. Shall we discuss some specific
> things we wish to say are true? What do we mean by them being true?
>
> regards
> David M
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 12:33 AM
> Subject: RE: MD What makes an idea dangerous?
>
>
> > Andy and all truth seekers.
> >
> > Andy said:
> > I still don't understand the source of your irritation with Matt and
> Rorty.
> > I think you believe you have made some very specific objections that
Matt
> is
> > avoiding, but I think he has honestly addressed each and every one of
> them.
> > Perhaps, it is becuase your points are do not come accross as clear to
us
> as
> > they are to you.
> >
> > dmb says:
> > I'd be happy to try and make my points clear. As I've said, answering
> > questions and addressing objections is what its all about and I'm glad
to
> do
> > it. But apparently I'm not worthy to speak of Rorty and so there aren't
> many
> > questions asked about my thoughts, just dismissive insults and such.
> >
> > Andy said:
> > I still don't know how this helps us recognize truth. Or how to
identify
> a
> > dangerous idea. Or how to reveal the "right" morals to live by. You
have
> > said truth and morality are as real as trees and rocks, but you don't
> offer
> > us any way to percieve this reality. I don't see how Pirsig has given
us
> > another option. Do you see why I am confused? If truth is not what we
> can
> > agree upon and if it is not absolute then what is it? How do we know
it?
> > Understand, that I am open to the possiblity of another way to identify
> > truth, if you can present it. I just have not grasped onto what it is
you
> > might be saying.
> >
> > dmb says;
> > I don't think I was trying to answer all those big questions. We could
get
> > at them. They're good ones. But my point here is much more narrow than
> that.
> > My point is simply that Pirsig and Rorty have different theories of
truth.
> > (It seems they are hostile to each other in other fundamental ways too.)
> I'm
> > just saying that Pirsig's theory of truth doesn't seek or lay claim to
the
> > absolute Truth. Nor does it assert that truth is merely a property of
true
> > statements. The MOQ's assertion that truth is simply a high quality
> > intellectual explanation is far less grandiose than absolute Truth, but
it
> > is far more "solid" and real than a property. For Pirsig, our truths
about
> > reality are more than a collective hunch too. Its the third choice you
> asked
> > for. The MOQ can't construe truth as a propery of statements because
> > intersubjective agreement is still just subjectivity. In ZAMM he's
trying
> to
> > get us to see technology, like his motorcycle, as ideas forged in steel.
> > He's asserting that the Buddha can be found in the gears of his machine
> just
> > as well as in the petals of a lotus flower. The MOQ makes the idea part
of
> a
> > larger system where ideas are a product of creation in and of
themselves,
> > not an attribute of some other thing. In this picture, we don't agree
> about
> > the truth of ideas, we ARE ideas - among other things. There are
propably
> > lots of better ways to get at the differences, but I'd imagine you see
> what
> > I'm getting at by now. Let me know.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> > Mail Archives:
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> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
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