Re: MD When is an interpretation not an interpretation?

From: Scott R (jse885@spinn.net)
Date: Fri Nov 14 2003 - 18:14:20 GMT

  • Next message: David MOREY: "Re: MD stuck in the middle of life"

    Paul, Johnny,

    > Paul wrote:
    > "The assertion that "the world causes us to have certain beliefs"
    > assumes a pre-existing world, a world of causal pressures at least."
    >
    > Johnny:
    > I noticed this myself. I think the MoQ says that Quality (Morality)
    > causes us to have certain beliefs.
    >
    > Paul:
    > Precisely.
    >
    > Johnny:
    > And then we indeed assume a pre-existing world based on the beliefs that
    > we currently have.
    >
    > Paul:
    > Exactly.

    How is this different from theological determinism, as one finds in Islam or
    Calvinism (not that any particular Muslim or Calvinist is likely to actually
    live according to this principle)? If there is no difference, what is the
    point of examining one's beliefs?

    >
    > Johnny:
    > Morality is pre-existing, but isn't quite the same thing as a
    > pre-existing world.
    >
    > Paul:
    > This is exactly my point. The MOQ says that Quality creates beliefs
    > about a pre-existing physical world. Pragmatists seem to be saying that
    > a pre-existing *physical* world causes pragmatic beliefs, of which the
    > pragmatic belief about a pre-existing world is one such belief and round
    > and round it goes until the pragmatist says "but we're only having a
    > discussion, I don't do metaphysics..." and continues to successfully
    > dodge tigers :-)
    >
    > My suggestion to Matt is that if "the world" is understood as value
    > (which is fundamentally prior to and neither physical nor mental) the
    > circularity is avoided. Both the physical (objective) world and
    > (subjective) beliefs are encompassed in a larger framework of value
    > which still retains the pragmatic assumption of a pre-existing physical
    > world. But to assert this is a metaphysical claim which pragmatists
    > avoid like the plague.

    My suggestion to you and to Matt is that the logic of contradictory identity
    embraces the circularity and moves it to center stage, thus creating an
    ironic metaphysics that -- if y'all would lose your nominalist
    presuppositions :-) -- would make the MOQist and the pragmatist happy.

    - Scott

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