RE: MD The Cutting Edge & Intellect

From: Mati Palm-Leis (mpalm@merr.com)
Date: Fri Nov 21 2003 - 00:38:28 GMT

  • Next message: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com: "Re: MD The Cutting Edge & Intellect"

    Mark

    I wrote: The cutting edge of reality is changing and dynamic in
    nature. Art, truth, morality and quality exist on that cutting edge.

    Mark 20-11-03: Truth is always static. They change, even Euclidean
    geometry is not truthful in all circumstances.

    Mati: Which is it? Always static or truth changes? SOM would like for
    truth to be static, MOQ I believe finds it Dynamic. But like art when
    you discuss truth in a static sense you really are not talking about
    truth. When you do I comes back to bite you. As a former Assistant
    Principal in a high school, I had to deal with a number of discipline
    issues. Students loved to try to build cases or various half truths or
    truths. I learned to listen to them and their truths which in many cases
    were to some degree valid. Then I would say, "Ok, assuming everything
    you said was true." Then I placed their truths in the context from
    which they got in trouble to begin with. I was interesting to watch
    them understand that truths have many meanings and the real value in
    understanding them in context, the dynamic context of life. But as
    Bodvar has pointed out before truth and such are facets of the gem
    called quality, which is what it is all about. Pirsig states that DQ
    "pervades" all the other realities, which would include intellect. Truth
    and Art pervade intellect but it doesn't make sense that Art and Truth
    are an intellectual function or value pattern.

     
    Mark 20-11-03: It's not easy to maintain the cutting edge, but Native
    American Indians do rather well, and flashes of insight produce evolve
    static patterns.

    Mati: Agreed that "flashes" of insight as to DQ itself, but not long
    sustained periods.

    Intellect also can't survive on that edge, it's a static pattern.

    Mark 20-11-03: Intellect does not sit idle and still, it moves and
    creates. When it creates it is responding to DQ, and when it does not it
    is composed of a static repertoire of patterns. I tried to spell this
    out in 'The edge of chaos' because i think it's what Pirsig says when
    you examine Lila.

    Mark 20-11-03
    The code of art Pirsig refers to is largely Eastern in flavour and too
    confined and restricted by Western notions of Art. That may be why he
    did not wish to use it in Lila as your quote indicates, because the
    Western conception of art is static. The Eastern conception is living;
    the Cook and his knife - the Tao - Quality.

    Mati: I forgot about this, the concept in Western Culture refers to
    "Craftmanship" which is an art.

    Mark: I only really got onto this myself in recent years so please be
    patient - when the 'penny drops' you are going to be in for a very
    pleasant and satisfying Aaaaaaahhh! moment. :-) You may like to take a
    peak at Northrop's 'The meeting of East and West' - a long book, but an
    easy read with a few eye openers along the way. And read, 'The master
    butcher' at the beginning of 'The edge of chaos' on the MoQ.org?

    Mati: Thanks for the reading recommendation it will be sometime before I
    will get to them though.

    Mark:
    Have you ever thought about your favourite film, Lawrence of Arabia in
    MoQ terms? It strikes me that there may be some insights lurking in
    there!

    Mati: I did watch the film in the terms of MOQ. But we have to be
    careful about the "Artistic" liberties, and reality of that time.
    However some of the social patterns were interesting enough. Insights
    for me were getting pretty complicated at one point and decided to just
    watch the film. Then there are times to just loose yourself in the film
    which is the most dynamic and fun of all. :)

    Mati

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