From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat Nov 29 2003 - 16:03:56 GMT
Paul:
Then intellect becomes fairly meaningless as a definition of one static
level. I would rewrite your sentence as: "Quality produces purposeful
intellectual patterns in man and the rest of nature is full of different
forms of Quality."
DM: Yes, I don't like intellect as the 4th level, I prefer Sam's idea.
I do not think you can draw the line Quality/Intellect so easily.
The Quality concept has a bit of a passive feel to it I think,
it is very good for indicating the fullness of aware experience
but the link between time/agency/value/purpose has to be brought
into this central concept. Phenomenological description has done this
in a more comprehensive way than Pirsig attempts. When we start to talk
about value and the development and evolution of levels we need to start
asking questions about the character/capacity/ability/power of this DQ
activity. If we do not link it closely to something intelligent from the
first
then I think we fall short of plausibility. What do we mean by intelligence
and
reason. For me it has to be tied to being in contact with possibility and
the future.
Making a good decision is being able to see what the consequences of your
actions
are, both in terms of the future and also a broader impact spacially. And as
Pirsig
rightly points out it all has to be in the context of values.
DMB
You're right my dog does prefer quality foods, but why, every now and then
is a bit of bad quality such fun?
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Turner" <paulj.turner@ntlworld.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: MD Intelligence in the MOQ
> Hi David
>
> David said:
> I see the idea that intellect implies only human 'abstract thought' as
> anthropocentric. Nature produces purposeful intellect in man and it is
> anthropocentric to think that the rest of nature is not full of
> different forms of it.
>
> Paul:
> Then intellect becomes fairly meaningless as a definition of one static
> level. I would rewrite your sentence as: "Quality produces purposeful
> intellectual patterns in man and the rest of nature is full of different
> forms of Quality."
>
> David said:
> I do not like the idea of evolution by design or the idea of purposeless
> random mutation and natural selection, I think the only plausible
> alternative is that evolution progresses in purposeful manner.
>
> Paul:
> That's what I'm saying, if we agree that the purpose is "to get better."
>
> David said:
> The dog that works out that sitting is the future possibility that gains
> the chocolate has a form of intelligence.
>
> Paul:
> I would say that it has a sense of biological quality but it isn't being
> intellectual.
>
> David said:
> The 'building' of the animal/human body from the fertilised egg is a
> very clear intelligently working activity. Reality is so obviously an
> inseperable material/active/intelligent combination. This is how I think
> quantum theory needs interpreting. The wave form represents the
> existence in the present of an open number of alternative futures (i.e.
> not in parallel universes) the collapse of the wave function is the
> converting of the richness of the possible into the finitude of the
> event-present. Now with something like the use of langauge (in human
> abstarct intelligence) the opeenness and possibilities of the future are
> increased, language makes the possible richer, the quantum
> indeterminability is greater (hence human's are more free than rocks),
> as we know, as you learn your capacity to control your environment
> increases because the possibility of control has become a possible
> option to you, which until you had certain language skills or other
> skills they were not. Does this make any sense to you?
>
> Paul:
> Yes, if you mean that each higher level of experience offers the ability
> to manipulate static patterns at lower levels and a greater freedom to
> respond to Dynamic Quality.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
>
>
>
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