From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Mon Jan 12 2004 - 19:41:10 GMT
DM:
>In this stance, in human
> being, begins a voyage that I suspect ends at SOM. The possibility then is
to
>start putting things back together again and in the full light of intellect
see
> that human being is utterly immersed in Being as a whole.
Steve:
I disagree that the logical extension of cognitive development is a
philosophy that postulates material substances in interaction with mental
substances with sensed qualities as by-products.
DM: I'm certainly not saying that. I am saying that the journey of
alienation,
separation and differentiation ends with SOM as its furthest extreme
expression.
Thought then has to turn back on itself, spiral-like, to progress. This may
be where
I depart from Bo. MOQ is one of the ways to progress thought towards a more
holistic
conception, from a mechanistic cosmos to a process/activity based
conception.
regards
David M
-----
Original Message -----
From: "Steve Peterson" <peterson.steve@verizon.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 2:13 AM
Subject: Re: MD The MOQ: An expansion of rationality
> Hi David M,
>
> > The reality of the individual Ego is something that has
> > developed in what was once an animal to give us something
> > that we now refer to as human.
>
> For Pirsig, what separates humans and animals are social patterns, but I
> agree that what we now refer to as human requires intellectual patterns
> which seem to require an individual ego.
>
> >Being human is to possess an
> > individuality that animals do not fully possess. How this development/
> > evolution was achieved, I suggest has to go hand in hand with a sort
> > of differentiation/separation/alienation/ of instinctual participatory
> > being.
> > The individual is a stance of separation. It says here I am and there
> > opposed
> > to me is the world, we are separate and not One.
>
> I agree that the very first of all intellectual creations of "this" and
> "that" distinctions that may define the intellect seem most likely to be
> "self" and "not self." I think this is the transition from Piaget's
> sensory-motor stage of cognitive development to the preoperational stage.
> This could be the beginning of what Pirsig defines as intellect--the
> manipulation of abstract symbols that stand for patterns of experience.
The
> very first abstract symbol may be the self. Patterns of manipulations of
> such symbols are the patterns that comprise the intellectual level.
>
> Animals and new-born babies have no sense of self. Rather than "I am
> hungry", just "there is hunger." In stead of "I am in pain," there is
only,
> "pain is." Sensations and emotions are experienced without distinction
> between knower and known.
>
> >In this stance, in human
> > being, begins a voyage that I suspect ends at SOM. The possibility then
is to
> >start putting things back together again and in the full light of
intellect see
> > that human being is utterly immersed in Being as a whole.
>
> I disagree that the logical extension of cognitive development is a
> philosophy that postulates material substances in interaction with mental
> substances with sensed qualities as by-products.
>
> Regards,
> Steve
>
>
>
>
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