Re: MD Objectivity, Truth, MOQ and Skyscrapers

Date: Thu Feb 19 2004 - 09:41:57 GMT

  • Next message: "Re: MD Objectivity, Truth, MOQ and Skyscrapers"

    David M. and MD.

    On 18 Feb. you spoke:

    > > Bo:At times I despair a little over "Lila's Child". Listen and listen
    > > well: What Science (as intellect) studies are the regularities
    > > (patterns) of the inorganic level! .....OF THE MOQ! Why this about
    > > scientific knowledge being "subjective" when Pirsig armed with Quality
    > > KNOWLEDGE has declared the inorganic patterns (plus the other levels andchose
    > > their patterns) to exist beyond any subject/object context. It sounds as
    > > if Pirsig doesn't quite take his own MOQ serious, but still operates
    > > from SOM's premises.

    > DM: Well that is good for me. Does this mean we can dump
    > the SO divide and stick to the pattern language from now on?

    I am not sure if you are ironic or not, but I chose to regard it a serious
    question. When will it sink in that the moment the Subject/Object
    Metaphysics is rejected it is stripped of its "M" (handed over to the
    MOQ) and only the S/O is left and must be tucked in under MOQ's
    system. NOT - as you suggested to Paul - that it spreads across the
    DQ/SQ (that would mean re-installing it in its metaphysical grandeur)
    but somewhere in the static half. Pirsig originally says that the inorganic
    plus biological levels are "objects" (or objective) and the social plus
    intellectual are "objects" (or subjective).

    This resulted it my "outburst" above as a result of Pirsig's about
    scientific knowledge (intellect's value) being "subjective". What kind of
    "subjectivity" is it that clings to intellectual patterns? Is it the old somish
    kind or a new Quality subjectivity? I have suggested the intellectual
    level itself to be the STATIC VALUE of the S/O divide. This creates no
    subjects and objects (or subjectivity or objectivity) that must be
    disposed of, only the value remains which is totally in MOQ's "spirit".

    > Is the value of the SO divide merely a ladder we can now throw
    > away from our new higher location?

    Well, the value of the S/O divide is not thrown away, it is the HIGHEST
    static value there is, but as shown above it is stripped of its
    metaphysical "honors". Physical sciences (particle physics and
    cosmology f.ex.) has long ago dropped any notion of "objective matter"
    or "objectivity" and will go on in this vein without any ado. It is
    philosophy based on S/O METAPHYSICS that is incapable of realizing
    this ...naturally because it SOM's "raison d'etre".

    Yes, the MOQ is beyond intellect which is taken down several pegs
    from the realm of ideas it usually is regarded as. I'm not all sure about
    how to see its "location" or its "nature", but am working on it ;-)


    MOQ.ORG -
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 -
    Nov '02 Onward -
    MD Queries -

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Feb 19 2004 - 09:43:36 GMT