From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed Apr 14 2004 - 20:32:32 BST
----- Original Message -----
From: "david MOREY" <user@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: MD quality religion (Christianity)
> Hi Sam
>
> I really enjoyed this description, as an official non-Christian
> it was something I could appreciate, quite moving in fact.
> My problem with Christianity is not the construction
> of a positive possibility, clearly you can, but the
> problem side, the sort of stuff Nietzsche complains about.
>
> regards
> David M
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Norton" <elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk>
> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 11:50 AM
> Subject: Re: MD quality religion (Christianity)
>
>
> > Hi Wim, all,
> >
> > A small contribution to the question of 'quality religion'.
> >
> > I can't present an argument for Christianity independently of how I
> understand the MoQ - because my
> > argument can't be separated from that account (I can't argue for how
> Christianity can be integrated
> > with a 'standard' MoQ if I don't believe that can be done - and how
could
> I argue for something I
> > don't believe in, other than as an academic exercise? which simply
doesn't
> inspire me). So, first a
> > (brief) outline of how I conceive the MoQ, and second an even briefer
> account of why I think
> > Christianity is a 'quality religion'.
> >
> > How I understand the MoQ still has four levels (if not more) -
inorganic,
> organic, social and
> > eudaimonic. Of particular concern are the last two, which I see in the
> following ways: the social is
> > the realm of our language, our forms of life, and the realm of
mythology.
> It is the level of the
> > stories that we live by. The eudaimonic is the realm of individual
> judgement, including (but not
> > restricted to) the discriminating intellect, which can perceive the
social
> patterns it observes.
> >
> > On the analogy that our inorganic and organic patterns need to be
> sustained for the higher levels to
> > function properly (ie we need to eat in order to think) I contend that
our
> social level patterns
> > need to be of high quality. In other words, to sustain the fourth level
> patterns which bring us
> > close to Quality, we need to ensure that the third level patterns are
kept
> in good repair. We need
> > to ensure that the myths and languages that we live by are ones which
have
> Quality.
> >
> > The Rortian or sceptical 'incredulity towards metanarratives' I see as
> unsustainable - they lead to
> > a deracinated intellect and impoverished human existence, one without
> meaning and therefore
> > significantly lacking in Quality. They are the equivalent of forgetting
to
> eat, and just as damaging
> > (in the long run) to a fully functioning [intellectual] life. To assert
> this is not to assert the
> > priority of mythological thinking over the sceptical intellect (in other
> than a temporal sense) - it
> > is to assert that no thinking can be done apart from its grounding in
our
> language, mythology and
> > forms of life.
> >
> > So the question for me is: which mythology allows for the full
flourishing
> of the fourth level, or,
> > in other words, which social level pattern allows people to hear the
music
> for themselves?
> >
> > I think Christianity works, most especially when it is grounded in the
> life, death and resurrection
> > of Christ - as opposed to the particular static cultural forms which
have
> over time borne that
> > mythology forward.
> >
> > The life is important for it is in the life of that particular human
being
> that we see a portrayal
> > of what the fourth level looks like. It is Quality incarnated in human
> form - which is the most
> > profound way in which we can relate to Quality.
> >
> > The death is important for there is a clear clash between Jesus and the
> social authorities of the
> > day (4th level seeking freedom from restrictive third level). The third
> level static patterns seek
> > to repress that Dynamic Quality breaking through in its midst - and they
> use third (and lower) level
> > qualities to achieve their purpose - so Jesus is crucified.
> >
> > The resurrection is important for it makes clear that the third level
> patterns are not
> > determinative, and that the fourth level both cannot be conquered by the
> third level, so in so far
> > as we can identify with and be animated by the Quality which animated
> Jesus, we too can function at
> > the fourth level of Quality.
> >
> > The church - for which I am a 'hireling minister' - is properly being
the
> church when it enables
> > that process, which, despite how it often appears, I believe it does on
a
> consistent basis. In other
> > words, when the church is properly the church, it is a third level
> institution that reliably bears
> > fruit on the fourth level - so it is in truth a 'community of the
> resurrection' ie open to and
> > celebrating the priority of level 4 over level 3, rather than an
> institution which denies level 4
> > and seeks to repress it. In particular, the question of dogma is
(rightly
> understood) a question of
> > discerning which level 3 patterns can allow level 4 patterns to
flourish,
> as opposed to inhibiting
> > them or (at worst) destroying them.
> >
> > (Of course, I would also claim that this mythology was a true story,
that
> it described the course of
> > life of a particular human being, but I don't think it appropriate to
> debate that element in a MoQ
> > forum.)
> >
> > That's it for now.
> >
> > Sam
> >
> >
> >
> > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> > Mail Archives:
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> >
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> >
>
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