Re: MD The Individual Level

Date: Sat Apr 17 2004 - 16:06:32 BST

  • Next message: "Re: MD The Individual Level"

    I think 'eudaimonia' describes those patterns better than intellectual. I
    completely accept the
    point that the levels describe patterns, not people - it is a presupposition
    of my argument.

    Mark 17-4-04: Sam, this is based on a fundamental mistake of yours regarding
    the MoQ. Levels ARE patterns. A level is a static repertoire of patterns of
    Let us use a simple analogy: The Symphony Orchestra.
    The Symphony Orchestra has a Woodwind section, a String section, a Percussion
    section, and a Brass section. Let us assume these sections correspond to the
    four levels of the MoQ?
    Any particular instrument must be tuned; it must be in a best tension with
    itself; it must 'be' well. Just as one instrument may 'be' well does not make it
    a new instrument does it? No. To be in tune is a good instrument.
    And so with ensemble paying - Eudaimonia is the Orchestra playing as a whole.
    Good Ensemble playing is not a new Orchestra, it is an Orchestra playing
    You make a simple mistake, but one which colours your whole description of

    I think a person is a combination of all the levels plus DQ. What I think the
    stable pattern of
    fourth level quality refers to is 'character' - and people can have more or
    less character, better
    or worse characters. It is a feature of a person; it's not the whole person.

    Mark 17-4-04: The term Character here is, in the analogy of the Symphony
    Orchestra, Ensemble playing. It is not the Woodwind, String, Percussion or Brass
    You confuse what the Orchestra IS with what the Orchestra is DOING.
    What the Orchestra is, is four sections; each section has instruments; each
    instrument is tuned, that is to say, each instrument is at its best.
    Just as a best tuned instrument is not a 'new' instrument, so a best
    Orchestra is not a 'New' Orchestra.

    One reason why 'individual' doesn't work quite so well as Eudaimonia IMO,
    although it's better than intellect.

    Mark 17-4-04: Now that your mistake has been identified and understood, we
    can see where you have gone astray: What Intellect does may be valued as either
    better or worse. Better Intellectual activity is not 'New' Intellectual
    activity, it is Intellectual activity being well, rather as a violin may be tuned
    poorly or tuned well. And the same may be said for each level in its turn.
    In the Ensemble playing of the Orchestra, the whole may play poorly or well,
    and playing well does not constitute a 'new' Orchestra.
    There is no Eudaimon level in the MoQ - However, there is Coherence in and
    across patterns of value, and it is the nature of Coherence - ensemble playing -
    which may be appreciated aesthetically as a life lived well.


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