From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat May 08 2004 - 20:55:15 BST
Hi DMB
Not entirely clear what was being described but interesting
possibility that nature is much more full of self-organisation and
activity at the inorganic level than we usually think.
I think this would take us into seeing more levels within
the inorganic if it developed.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: MD Patterns
> DM and all:
>
> David M wrote:
> Also it is hard to describe where a river falls into the four levels.
> It is inorganic I suppose but it is not subject to any self-organising
> characteristics like a crystal or an organism. There are clear
> dynamic and contingent aspects to its form, whereas the entities
> related to the levels focuses on the static forms of atoms, molecules,
> organisms, social behaviour and ideas. Rivers are as a result of the
> interaction of inorganic patterns in contingent ways forming a mixed
> contingency related pattern. Human beings are like this too and also
> involving more levels. Would you agree with this?
>
> dmb replies:
> Forming a mixed contingency related pattern? This is unclear to me. In any
> case, I just wanted to respond to the idea that a river "is not subject to
> any self-organizing characteristics." About ten or twelve years ago, I
> learned otherwise. A Brit by the name of John Wilkes went out and studied
> rivers in order to develop naturalistic fountain-like sculptures that he
> calls "flow forms". He learned some interesting things about rivers and
> water along the way and presented his findings at a conference that I
> attended. It seems that rivers DO exhibit some self-organizing
> characteristics. The middle stages of a river, for example, don't just
flow
> along the path of least resistance as a powerless victim of gravity and
the
> landscape. (The middle stages of a river refers to that part which is
> neither the young rushing white water of the mountains nor the old wide
part
> that empties into the sea.) Instead, the middle stages "like" to slow down
> and undulate rather than rush to the sea and they even seem to play a role
> in carving out a meandering path. Further, the back and forth of the
flowing
> water organized the water molecules in some pretty amazing ways. This was
> the most astonishing aspect of Wilkes' presentation. He projected photos
> he'd taken through a microscope. The water molecues that had gone through
> the undulation process were beautiful, bright while the water molecules
that
> had NOT been allowed to flow naturally appeared to be tattered, malformed
> and dead. They then tested these two kinds of water, which were identical
> except for the undulation process. Both kinds were equally clean,
oxygenated
> and all that. They tested it by simply using it to water plants and, you
> guessed it, the more organized and beautiful form of water grew much
larger
> and healthier plaints. Plants don't do studies, look through microscopes
or
> attend conferences, but they knew what was better.
>
> If anyone is interesting in finding out more about this stuff, I'd suggest
> starting with a search using "flowform" and "John Wilkes". I doubt if he's
> the only one looking into such things, but he would get you rolling.
>
>
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