From: Alicia Dvorak (advorak@risd.edu)
Date: Fri May 21 2004 - 18:49:47 BST
On May 21, 2004, at 12:31 PM, Platt Holden wrote:
> Hi all:
>
> Most biological forms attain their ends (survival) by terrorizing,
> stealing
> or lying, or a combination thereof.
>
> Terrorism is the preferred tactic of most animals who must kill other
> animals
> to survive. These killers include lions, tigers, bears, raccoons,
> possums and
> snakes.
>
> Stealing is the tactic employed by the scavengers, including hyenas,
> vultures, bloodsuckers and viruses.
>
> Lying is exhibited by animals and plants who use camouflage to snare
> their
> prey. Among such creatures are chameleons, cuttlefish and Venus fly
> traps.
>
AD:
You've anthropomorphicized a lot here. When a human kills we could
call it terrorism or murder, when he robs, we call it stealing, and
when he hides something he is lying. But the same does not apply to
animals which are non-intellectual and non-social (MoQ social...some
animals are called 'social', but that is misleading). For example,
animals don't murder or terrorize, they kill to eat, just as we don't
call eating a chicken terrorism. And stealing only has meaning when
property is valued...obviously social.
> PH:
> At their own level, these beastly behaviors are moral. But they are
> detrimental to the health of the human social level which depends on
> peace,
> production and propriety to survive. So terrorism (murder, mugging,
> mayhem),
> stealing (burglary, hijacking, embezzlement), and lying (swindling,
> cheating,
> counterfeiting), are considered crimes by most societies.
AD:
OK. but don't use such specifically human words to describe animals.
> PH:
> Given Pirsig's evolutionary moral hierarchy, the term "biological
> crimes"
> against society makes perfect sense. As he says, you cannot defeat
> crime by
> words. You can only defeat crime by meeting it on its own terms.
AD:
right. i think we'll all pretty much agreed on this. the problem is
figuring out what actions are biologically motivated. Do you, Platt,
think that every instance of stealing, 'terrorism' (you've used that
term extremely broadly), or lying is a biological crime against
society? IMO there are instances when someone may do one of those
things to maintain, better or otherwise purposefully affect theirs or
someone else's social position.
Alicia
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