From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Wed Jun 09 2004 - 20:48:49 BST
Platt misunderstands Pirsig, and me too.
On 9 Jun 2004 at 12:16, Platt Holden wrote:
>
> msh says:
> But reasonable people can and do agree on on a wide variety of
facts.
> And a fact is true, by definition, remember, so a statement like
> "true facts" is redundant. Debate about whether or not these
> "facts" really are "true" makes for an interesting grad school
> seminar, maybe, but have little value in the real world.
>
I take it then you do not agree with Pirsig's view of "truth."
msh says:
Here's the core of what Pirsig is saying in the quoted paragraph:
"There are many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can
perceive some to have more quality than others, but that we do so is,
in part, the result of our history and current patterns of values."
In developing their versions of "truth", people do indeed emphasize
some facts and ignore others, as the result of their "history and
current patterns of values." This does not mean that the facts,
whether emphasized or ignored, are not true. So it's possible for
someone to ignore the fact that water freezes at 0 degrees C, and
then go on to develop a beautiful, inwardly consistent version of
"truth." This does not mean they can ice skate on Lake Eerie in
July.
msh said:
> I'm always tickled when I run into the "truth is relative" people.
> This may be "true" but NO ONE believes it, even the people who make
> the statement. They are, after all, trying to communicate some
> "truth."
ph said:
You also appear to ascribe to the notion of what "everybody says"
must be true (or the negative version, "no one believes it").
Besides asserting an absolute truth, you seem oblivious to the
Argumentum ad Populum fallacy.
msh says:
This interpretation of what I said is so far off, it's difficult to
comment. But I'll try to be more clear.
In discussion with others, anyone who says "truth is relative" either
doesn't understand what they are saying, or doesn't believe it. If
the statement is "true", language is useless as a means of
communication. No one, including Pirsig, would bother to make the
statement, much less write a book about it or anything else.
Best to all,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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