From: Joe (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon Jun 21 2004 - 17:02:44 BST
On 17 June 2004 5:29 PM Mark M writes:
Dear forum,
<snip>
If Coherence can be induced by the provision of a critically significant
repertoire of patterns, then we may be in for a new renaissance in music.
Just intonation may provide that repertoire. Already there are synths which
can be tuned for just intonation at the flick of a switch, and there are
composers using them.
MOQers may like to consider the link between the word 'just' and 'Quality'?
The old meaning of Just is more concerned with aesthetic appreciation than
Pythagorean Kosmos.
While the basic principles of Just Intonation are simple, they are static
patterns from which tension emerges. At a critical point which cannot be
predicted, DQ tips the scales in favour of greater freedom for aesthetic
appreciation. I had occasion to contemplate the scales of justice the other
day. These scales are always shown to be in balance. Proportion is implied.
Order. But this notion of order has gained a static orientation which was
not originally implied: The point where things not only have the greatest
freedom, but where freedom is aesthetically pleasing - coherence.
Freedom from patterns and yet freedom in patterns - this is the best state,
this is the sweet spot.
Any society or Human relationship which allows freedom within static
patterns is Just and well ordered - not in a static sense we assume for it
today, but in the best way for any patterned state to float at ease.
My reading of Noam Chomsky has me thinking that we need to tune society to a
new order - not the old way order is recognised, as a hierarchy of
privilege, but as a place where hierarchy doesn't really exist, because
coherence does not have a hierarchy, just an aesthetic sense which is very
pleasing in all respects.
I hope some find this to be of value, even if i have been a little rambling.
Hi Mark and all,
joe: There is no limit to the possibilities the MOQ presents to me in your
words.
In thinking, discussing, arguing in SOM terms, there is always the specter o
f an Objective, Subjective division of principles. Science continues or
stops at Objective or Subjective. Objective anthropology is difficult to
bring off. The science was crippled.
Now with Coherence, Mystical (DQ), Degenerate mystical (SQ) a science is
proffered which has no stopping point. If the flavor of another's statement
feels degenerate to me, I can point to the mystical from which it
degenerates either to lead me to question my own mystical position, or to
point out the fallacy in the other's degenerate mystical position.
Pirsig's division that the inorganic and organic orders are objective, and
the social and intellectual orders are subjective lays the groundwork for a
new approach to science. The objective orders are discussed mystically and
the mystical is easily verified as the support for the measurement. The
subjective orders are more obscure by being discussed in a degenerate
mystical way. I can point by words to the mystical of the social and
intellectual orders, but another's understanding can be hampered by my view
of the mystical that forms my degenerate mystical statements.
Aesthetics are important. Discussion is required to develop a common
mystical understanding. Such a discussion is more difficult, e.g. Bodvar
Shutvik's discussion of an intellectual pattern. Yet the discussion is
fruitful. The social and intellectual orders are mystical Quality.
I can envision a science based on a law of three. The organic, social, and
intellectual orders evolve from the inorganic order.
You propose a sweet spot in coherence between order and chaos. The
intervals are not infinite. Using the intervals of music, the ordered
vibrations in air, which are experienced through an aesthetic appreciation I
can envision a law of seven for all vibrations, e.g., the light spectrum of
the rainbow, the periodic table of elements, sentient individuality, the
behavior of individuals in society, etc. Science is put on a firm basis.
The gulf of subjective-objective research will be abandoned. The true, a
mystical acceptance of experience, and the false, a denial of such
experience will remain. Existence is not divided into intentional/real.
Existence is the quality of order.
Joe Maurer
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
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