From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Mon Jul 26 2004 - 15:46:07 BST
Mark and all MOQers:
177 "Intuition sometimes is an equivalent of Dynamic Quality. However, its
also a kind of biological instinct. Since Western philosophy confuses these
two, the MOQ avoids the term."
Intuition has been suggested to be intellectual coherence between a
repertoire of sq intellectual patterns. Thus, replacing coherence at the intellectual
level for intuition avoids problems.
[David Buchanan]
If Pirsig is saying intuition is sometimes biological and sometimes Dynamic,
and he certainly is, then your assertion that intuition is "intellectual
coherence" is obviously quite off the mark, Mark.
Mark 26-7-04: Coherence is exceptional sq-sq tension. This may occur at any
level. At the intellectual level coherence is that point at which DQ is
evident. We tend to regard this unifying harmony as intuition. No problem.
180 "The MOQ supports both conservatism and liberalism at the same time.
Freedom and order are contradictory but both are necessary at the same
time."
Coherence is the optimum state between DQ and sq.
[David Buchanan] Coherence seems to be whatever strikes your fancy at the
moment. Its the word with a thousand definitions, which effectively renders it
meaningless.
Mark 26-7-04: Coherence is an MOQ description of excellence. One recognises
excellence when one experiences it, and one has to be able of recognition
before participating in it. Each example of excellence is a flash of fleeting
process; coherence indicates in MOQ terms what that process may be: exceptional
sq-sq tension.
198 "Zen argues that it is through stillness, not action, that a man can
realize himself, in the sense of actualizing his potentialities and
developing his personality towards the ideal state of harmonious integraton
of his powers."
The sweet spot or coherence in what is traditionally called, 'activity'
(sport, engineering, art, logic, etc.) is that point where the 'thing' doing the
'activity' is DQ. For example, riding at the sweet spot it is a state in which
distinctions between rider and thing rode disappear; where does the rider begin
and where does he/she end? Where does the bike begin and where does it end?
Stillness - coherence.
[David Buchanan]
Activity is coherence and coherence is stillness, so activity is stillness?
Mark 26-7-04: Yes. If stillness is, 'being at one with' then activity is
stillness. There is no effort here. This is how a Master sees it.
Oh my god, are you alright? You're bending over so far backwards to make it
fit, that I'm worried that you've slipped a disk or snapped your spine in two.
I think the quote makes it pretty clear that Pirsig idea about "the ideal
state of harmonious integration" is approximately the opposite of what you've been
saying. For you its about doing, for Zen and Pirsig its about NOT doing.
Mark 26-7-04: There is no doing at the sweet spot. All the examples show
this.
210 "The MOQ says there is an ultimate unity but the interrelation of
subject and object does not reveal it."
Coherence, the interrelation of DQ and sq, or better said, sq-sq tension
attempts to convey instances of unity.
[David Buchanan]
Again, Pirsig is saying the opposite. He's saying unity cannot be found in
the interrealtion of the parts. Its no good to try to weasel out of it by
switching sq-sq tension for s-o tension. It still expresses an idea that Pirsig
explicitly rejects in this quote.
Mark 26-7-04: I expect you are correct dmb. It must be very silly of anyone
to even entertain the notion that motorcycle maintenance is being at the sweet
spot. And then to have the audacity to suggest an MOQ description of the sweet
spot and call it coherence is futile.
If faith is having a belief in the face of evidence to the contrary, Mark has
tremendous faith in the validity of his ideas about coherence.
Mark 26-7-04: It's not up to me dmb. It's up to you, and many others also.
It's out of my hands now.
All the best,
Mark
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Jul 26 2004 - 18:05:49 BST