Mf'ers
DMB
> Dave, were you talking to me? It seemed like you were, but you didn't say.
3WD
Over the last few months I've tried to steer away from responding to posters on a line by line, post
by post basis. Many times it just degenerates into namecalling, as our past screaming matches
illustrated, at least to me, that this approach, while possibly entertaining for the onlookers, is
most often futile in advancing the understanding of anything except the perverse nature of people.
My "slaying giants" post way directed at an underlying grumble I've sensed in both forums from a
significant number of people who seem to fall into the group Pirsig identifies this way:
" Sometimes people think there are some evil individual "men" somewhere who are exploiting them,
some secret cabal of capitalists, or "400" or "Wall Street bankers," or WASPs or name -any- [ Giant
of your dreams] that gets together periodically and has secret conferences on how to exploit them
personally." (Lila p 217)
Rants like your, "..there's just no excuse for corporate whores." suggest to me that your patterns
of value may have a lot in common with this group. Don't get me wrong even Pirsig in the next line
after this quote admits, " It get confusing,..." and on the preceding page " It was spooky how well
it [ any Giant] all worked with an intelligence of it own that was way beyond the intelligence of
any person." Thus my introduction of the "flight or fight" scenario. (Based on the Catastrophe
Theory of Rene' Thom as presented in a work by Charles Jencks). I'm quite sure that any good book
on animal behavior covers similar ground, but in the end after " It seemed like he'd been running
all his life." (Lila p 219) Pirsig came to these conclusions.
" He was as much a part of the Giant as anyone else." (Lila p 219)
and so are you, and I, and everybody else on this planet. So when you conclude that "but the
pursuit of truth has to take place outside of [the Giant's} clutches." I believe you are deluding
yourself . Both Zen and Pirsig's tales suggest that one must seek enlightenment while attending
to, and engaged in the larger patterns of the Giant. Not necessarily because of any moral imperative
just that the only alternatives, as I stated before, are lunacy, mysticism, and one other I missed
before, death. I'm not personally interested in experiencing 1 or 3 and while in recent months
I've come to accept the possibility of your favorite , mysticism, practically and pragmatically its
adoption as a world view for any significant group of mankind is at best a ravingly optimistic long
term goal (maybe 100s, or 1000s, or 100's of thousands years). And because we know so little about
mysticism, saying what effect its adoption would have on our relationships with the giant patterns
of social and intellectual values is so far beyond speculation as to proposed adopting a science
fiction novel as a practical guide to boiling potatoes.
So Pirsig after years of experience and thought on the matter found.........
"In recent years... he could feel his fear of this old monster lessening, and a kind of familiar
affection for it growing." (Lila 219)
and the reason he stopped running as I originally posted was,
"Once you understand something well enough, you don't need to run from it." (Lila p 219)
He then packaged up his insights in two books published 20 years apart in the hopes that maybe he
might help someone else save a few steps. But many just keep on running into the sun clutched in
fear of their own shadow.
3WD
PS: Mangus thanks for not bouncing DMB's post for the word "drivel" in as much he was kind enough
to provide us an ample definition of the word in the following:
> And while we're in a gaming mood, may I offer a contest? Its called "Who
> wants to be most relevant?" You don't have to do anything except post
> normally. But remember you're trying to impress the audience with your
> ability to remain on topic and answer the question of the month. Show 'em
> how smart and intellectually disciplined you are and you'll take home the
> big prize! I'll take it upon my self to rate each post on a ten point scale,
> with ten being a perfect score. Mom always wanted me to be a game show
> host..
What? And evolve into a dynamic "for profit" corporate whore, as opposed to working the cribs as a
"not for profit" corporate whore? How disgusting!
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