Hi people,
Obviously, few people have taken seriously my suggestion of looking back
over the archives. IMO, this reflects a poor collective self image.
Maybe it's my academic training, but I believe that reference to prior
publications is paramount and without it little progress can be made. In
the case of the MoQ, our own archives should be regarded as a great
treasure, and cited often.
> Much of this was discussed before and is in the archives. For example,
> the topic for December 1998
> was "BRAIN, MIND AND INTELLECT"
> (http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/9812/
>
I particularly want to draw your attention to discussions on 7-8
December 1998.
http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/9812/0058.html
JONATHAN
>> And yet, Pirsig himself says that DQ = preintellectual reality and
>> SQ = intellectualised reality.
>
MAGNUS
>Where does he say this?
I then went on with quotes from ZAMM and Lila (e.g. the "hot stove"
discussion) where Pirsig makes it clear that he regards the identifiable
patterns that characterize our reality as INTELLECTUALIZATIONS. Pirsig's
levels are all intellectualizations - into inorganic, biological, social
patterns. . . . My reservations remain about having the Intellect itself
as a separate "level" (see archive).
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Another theme I want to return to is the one of INTELLECT AS PLANNING.
IMHO, most of human development occurred historically by a process of
evolution. Incremental changes in behaviours and institutions appeared
randomly, and the favourable ones were selected. However, the short
timespan of recorded history reveals a new process whereby man learned
to harness his powers of extrapolation to PLAN things. This new force
for change gathered pace in the industrial revolution and became a
dominant force during the Victorian age, with the emergence of town
planning, transport policy, health management, public education etc.
etc. However, the Victorians hypocritically persisted with pre-existing
(unplanned) social values that were unable to adapt to the pace of
change. The hypocrisy is clearly shown by the Victorian attitudes to
religion and also to human rights.
Pirsig marks the end of WW1 as the beginning of the intellectual age.
While I believe that intellect (planning) became a dominant force
earlier, I do recognise that the WW1 disaster clearly marked the
complete failure of Victorian social values. Thus I agree with Pirsig's
marking of 1918 as a landmark date.
Jonathan
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
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