Roger and all: Thanks for the, er, whole quote. The effort is appreciated
and this version is much easier for me to swallow. I think a person can
rightly interpet it without any danger of lapsing into Solipsism. As in "I
invented the world" or "Reality is a construct of my mind", which I think is
a very UN-MOQ view. "Even the fake Hindu swamis don't claim to have that
power". I think such a take on Pirsig would make it impossible to DEFINE the
intellectual level because it mis-construes it as the whole ball of wax. And
its really hard to be definitive or precise when you're trying to describe
EVERYTHING.
Seems like the quote is a litttle different and a bit larger each time I see
it, but Roger's fix makes it much, much better. Whew! ( I'm still al little
suspicious about what may be missing... Or maybe Pirsig really does end some
sentences with three periods.. ) But I could live with this version. (BELOW)
Instead of trying to explain my interpertation of the fixed words, I'll just
beg every one of you to compare it to the Lila quotes I've been dishing up
so far this month. Please? Please? Please? The quotes I provided had the
advantage of coming from the actual published work of RMP. That's got to
count for something, eh?
DMB
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RISKYBIZ9@aol.com [SMTP:RISKYBIZ9@aol.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 8:29 PM
> To: moq_focus@moq.org
> Subject: Re: MF Define the intellectual level
>
>
>
> "The section in chapter 3 (in ZMM) about gravity points out
> that the body of knowledge we call science is in fact
> subjective. The law of gravity exists only in the minds of
> modern-day people, who can change this law any time new
> information shows that a higher quality law of gravity can
> be constructed. Einstein did so very recently. Other
> changes may come. The sentence, "There are no things in
> themselves outside experience" is true but the MOQ sees
> experience differently from subject-object metaphysics.
> Experience in a SOM is an action of the object upon the
> subject. In the MOQ, experience is pure Quality which
> gives rise to the creation of intellectual patterns which
> in turn produce a division between subjects and objects.
>
> Among these patterns is the intellectual pattern that says
> "there is an external world of things out there which are
> independent of intellectual patterns".
>
> That is one of the highest quality intellectual patterns
> there is. And in this highest quality intellectual
> pattern, external objects appear historically before
> intellectual patterns...
>
> But this highest quality intellectual pattern itself comes
> before the external world, not after, as is commonly
> presumed by the materialists. If the law of gravity
> preceded the concept of the law of gravity, by, say, 3.5
> billion years, then what happens to that 3.5 billion year
> old entity, when someone like Einstein changes the law of
> gravity? Does that mean that what happened 3.5 billion
> years ago has to change retroactively? Thats amazing how
> Einstein can change something that existed 3.5 billion
> years before he was born. Even the fake Hindu swamis don't
> claim to have that power.
>
> ....both the "law of gravity" and "gravity" are
> intellectual static patterns, but gravity (when you take
> the quotation marks off) is said, in a very high quality
> interpretation of experience, to be an external reality."
>
>
>
>
>
> MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
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