Hi Bo and Foci
Bo wrote:
>
> Yes, this clears it up for me at least. Pirsig says that "time"
> (change) is a concept which is to say a generalization - which is to
> say Intellect. Remember the passage in ZAMM where he states
> that there was no gravity until Newton came along and created the
> law. In its time that one struck me heavily (along with a dozen
> other in that book).
I'm surprised. Do you really mean that you're content with "time"
being only a concept, an IntPoV? Another quite important note that
I've said a few times before: Newton created the *law* of gravity,
not gravity itself! The *law* of gravity is an IntPoV, gravity is
inorganic value. Analogous with time I would say that there is a
concept called time, but there is also an inorganic value behind
that concept.
> Magnus
> Your foray into the physics is impressive, but I have this feeling of
> being sucked into a Renselle-like "physicsmysticism". This is
> Intellect's effort to make its value universe (generalization or
> objetivizions) the innermost reality instead of Dynamic Quality. OK,
> no evil there -on the contrary: by way of Intellect existence has
> slowly "demasked" Social value's similar effort and rationalized the
> world.
No, I don't mean to make Intellect the innermost reality. I mean to
make the quantum level the innermost reality. And I'm not too keen on
calling DQ innermost. The MoQ states that higher levels are more dynamic
than lower, so why would the lowest level be pure DQ? Makes no sense
at all. And BTW, DQ is not an issue when discussing static levels.
> To do so Intellect had to have its period of being REALITY itself,
> but at the Quantum and Relativity outposts its subjective/objective
> division collapses, but the thing is not to form a Quantum religion
> (and hijack the MoQ), but to revert to the simplicity postulate of
> LILA.
Doesn't that argument imply SOLAQI? Anyway, that's one of the reasons
I'm not a fan of SOLAQI. I don't think Intellect ever was reality itself.
(BTW, if the quantum level exists, it means that the "Quantum and
Relativity outposts" are one and the same.)
> When you say:
>
> > DQ introduced the 3 space-dimensions plus time, which are 4 of the
> > state- dimensions that inorganic patterns can value. The 3
> > space-dimensions plus time makes sure no two inorganic patterns
> > occupies the same spot at the same time. Patterns are more or less
> > free to move around in the 3 space-dimensions but all inorganic
> > patterns travel through the time dimension like an army, strictly
>
> it is not wrong - it may be the best Intellectual description there is -
> but nonsensical to the inorganic level - as Intellect's "Biology" is to
> life or "Sociology" is to the social level.
It's not nonsensical to the inorganic level since it's a lower level.
As such, inorganic patterns uses it for its own purposes, just as the
MoQ dictates.
I don't see why a quantum level is so hard to accept. The quantum level
created time, space, gravity, etc. The inorganic level created hydrogen,
helium, carbon etc. using those quantum level building blocks. The
biological level created plants and animals using the building blocks
of the inorganic level and so on. It fits perfectly into the MoQ and
it also shows how utterly different the levels are. It shows that the
phrase "uses building blocks of a lower level" doesn't necessarily
mean to use "building blocks" as in "stuff with mass". The building
blocks can be something completely different, like time or space.
Further, I've been studying some physics the last few days and I'm
not being discouraged at all. For one thing, a separate quantum level
explains the wave-particle dualism. The wave view of electromagnetism
is simply the inorganic value and the particle view is the quantum
value. A different example of the same dualism is taste, only there
are different levels involved. The biological view is the taste we
feel when we put a bar of chocolate in our mouth, the inorganic view
is the chemical composition of chocolate. Depending on which level
we use to measure, we see different results. This has been bothering
scientists for quite some time but the MoQ (with a quantum level)
explains it. (Quite beautifully IMHO).
Magnus
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