Christopher
On 7/5/01 you posted a link to a website the brain I went there to check
it out. I got error messages the first two links I tried and then an
error message which said something to the effect that it doesn't work on
a Mac and Network Communicator, plus I have to download client software
to do anything which may not work on a Mac either. I left. Since I
couldn't do anything there's not much to comment on.
On 1/9/02 you posted that you were working with a service provider to
obtain free access for the MoQ community. And I did go to the suggested
page on the C2 site join up, contribute, and add a few pages to get the
feel of how it worked. And reported my opinions back to the group
suggesting they check it out.
What you may or may not know is that there is kind of a MoQ board of
directors, all volunteers, who have spent their time and effort and I
would guess some of the own personal money keeping the site and the
e-mail list going for nearly five years now. While I participate and
benefit from their efforts it costs me nothing but time and I have no
role in the decision making process other than to voice my opinion when
asked.
I did however send on 01/12/02 a private e-mail to one of the directors
which said the following:
> I've been surfing the "wiki" site of Ward Cunningham the guy who
> developed the concept. And low an behold it has a Zen and the Art page
> and Robert Pirsig page.
> The Zen page had a reference to Lila with the little question mark which
> designates a link to a new page just waiting for someone to start it and
> fill it in. I just couldn't resist.
> (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LilaAnInquiryintoMorals) then not wishing to
> leave it unsigned I went on and did the personel page to
> (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ThirdWaveDave)
> Total time including printing out the text formatting page, correcting
> my stupid spelling mistakes after saving, etc. 15 minutes. And you can
> use a word processor off line,using there text formatting rules, and it
> pastes in like a dream.
>
> If you are honestly looking to revamp the website I suggest that you and
> the other board members seriously investigate this concept. Sure its
> ugly but damn does it work. Both dynamic and static and linked everyway
> in Sunday. This solves the "MF problem" the website becomes the FOCUS
> and STATIC LATCH and MD can remain as dynamic and raucous as ever. The
> other thing it would hopefully do is off load some of the routine site
> maintainence from the board members.
>
> One more plug and then I'll go.
>
> Since Ward's site has the Pirsig pages I thought we might ask him if he
> would mind MF group squatting on his site for a focused month just to
> get the feel and see if we might not bring those pages up a little. I've
> an e-mail drafted to him but thought I better see if you guys were
> interested at all before I proposed it to either him or the MF group.
>
> DaveThomas formatted as:
> (Wiki link-if you crowd it together and have at least two caps its a
> new link, save it then click on it and it's a new preformatted page with
> link name as the title ready to enter info)
He was out of town that weekend and did not respond until today. Though
from comments on this list I think he forwarded it to other board
members or discussed it with them.
What you must understand is:
1 The members of this group are very diverse and by and large not
computer programmers but users. And adopting a totally new technology,
no matter how whippy it it, probably just shouldn't and won't happen overnight.
2. The members, and especially the volunteers, have a vested interest
and a personal attachment to what has gone on in the last five years and
implementing a totally new site on and new server with new people in
control is a threat to the group as a whole. In as much as it may well
splinter and fragment it in such a way that it is no longer viable in
any location.
For that reason if and when it does happen it ideally should be with the
consent and support of a majority of the group. Because what makes this
site viable is the people. If they don't, or won't contribute nothing happens.
If you though the previous post was rough you should be glad that I was
on the way out the door and only had a few seconds to get it off. I have
cooled down considerably now.
In 1/17/02 post you said
> So get to Dave's pages and put your 2 cents in. It's as easy as clicking
> the "Edit Text" button. Go ahead...
which was fine, then went on and said,
> Dave doesn't mind at all.
How did you know this ? did I tell you? had we discussed in any way ?
No. As a matter of fact I didn't, but it was presumptuous of you since
you do not know me and we have never had any previous conversations on
my likes and dislikes. I believe there is a whole page on the wiki C2
site about putting words into others mouths.
Likewise it was presumptuous and in my opinion unethical to take my
comments and my name from one site and use it to create another, and
making it public, without asking me or anyone else who's name was on
those pages. Now because mine was alias it's not potentially that
damaging, but if I was Wim I would be livid. Now I know that this issue
in not unfamilar to the wiki community because there are many pages
devoted to the ethics of editing the work of others. But spliting off a
new site with no comments from anyone probably hasn't been discussed
because it was beyond their comprehensions.
But what really pisses me off is because you did this you may have blown
the possiblity of implementing this type of technology here because you
clearly demonstrated its potential for abuse.
All this being I believe you meant well and I chalk it up to the over
exuberance and lack of experience do to your youth. Which may piss you
off but since I'm nearly 40 years older I'm allowed.
We shall see.
3WD
PS: Wim "it goes to show" is American slang and in this context it
refers to the inherent potential danger of conflict being created by
completely open wiki sites where anyone can move or edit anything to
anywhere. Which was shown by Christopher's actions, however well
intentioned.
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:03:34 BST