Hello Moffers!
Talking about the fifth levels is something like writing science fiction!
I've been always a great Isaac Asimov's fun .... so I try! But not writing
a SF novel... I'm going to spit a lot of definitions... forgive me, maybe
it's not the best way to investigate Quality, but we are "suspended in
language" as you teach me.
PART I - KNOW YOUR PAST...
A good way to find out what will happen is to extrapolate the future reading
correctly the past. Our "correct" way is MOQ.
1) Evolution is the tool Pirsig uses to draw his map of universe.
Pirsig's method of investigation is this question: What comes before ? (Lila
, Ch 2) Levels are an evident consequence. They work very well, as all we
can see,
so we can say they are "true" (at least among us). I agree with J.B. Marder,
who says:
> I am forced to regard the 4 levels not as revealed truths, but as
> one of Pirsig's AXIOMS for the MoQ. Axioms aren't facts that are
> "discovered". They are starting points, accepted for their utility.
Pirsig doesn't draw perfect lines to classify patterns in levels. Every
division risks to be arbitrary. For example: it's usual to think that bees
nests are social patterns. I'm not sure: bees build nests under a necessary
force filed in their DNA. They are not able to live alone in a jungle. They
don't choose to live in a nest. So their "social" behavior can be seen as a
pure Bio Pattern.
2) A Level is not merely a class of patterns (I fell in this trap
sometime). It's the age in which a class of pattern become "leader of
evolution". As rightly Bo pointed out:
> Intellect took precedence in Western culture around 1918 ....
Yes. It doesn't means (of course) that Intellect was born in 1918. Human
Intellect (or Intelligence, Mind....) is a natural function of this
"animal" , the Man, since he evolved to this present "homo sapiens" form.
It's ridiculous to think that 50 thousands years ago, men did not have
intellect. If you drive a time machine back to 50,000 B.C. , take a newborn
baby from a cave, and bring him to Los Angeles, you will make of him a
perfect 3rd millennium American boy. He has (had!) in his DNA all our
functions.
3) Patterns of a level exist already during the lower level age.
Human beings transformed their "Bio" families in social patterns. It
happened during the bio level age. Those social patterns (tribes, villages,
nations, and so on... to the Giant) where able to evolve. After a long time
that social patterns became "leader of evolution". Man was no more only a
bio-logic organism. He begun to live within a social-logic world.
Equally intellectual patterns were present in human "mind" since many
thousands years ago. Society used them to develop technology, to exchange
information, to educate new social members, to create the Giant...
Meanwhile these patterns have been able to evolve... and now are going to
rule the world. We are now living within another kind of logic.
Surely in this moment Bo is searching a way to put his Q-idea in my words!
Let's try...
SOM has been the main intellectual pattern during the social level age; it
has been decisive to help western culture to develop technology, science,
culture..... Now it's no more adequate... SOM has never been able to give
happiness (that is a perception of Good) to men. So a new Intellectual
pattern, the Q-Idea, is coming. (what do you think Bo?) IMHO this Q-Idea is
in this moment "only" another philosophy, a better one, and maybe one day
will be able to create something new, who knows? Just like in bio -
patterns evolved a new strange animal , the Man. He was able to do strange
things.... and created a new world.
4) Patterns living within a level vie for dominance; this fight (I call it
an horizontal fight) is usually an easy way to go along, but it's a road to
nowhere. The more effective (and difficult to find) way is to encounter DQ
and create a new level.
War is the usual fight among social patterns. In 1918 happened that after
the nth disaster of 1st world war (Lila, ch. 21-22), western people tried a
new way: stop with this stupid society, good only to massacre people! we
created society to protect ALL of us! we don't understand anymore the VALUES
of this society! we need something else (Bingo! DQ encountered!!!). This
step has been fundamental: western society now seems to be able to defeat
definitively all the others social patterns. Note that it's not sure at all:
up to now only a part of the world (Europe, North America, Australia and New
Zealand, maybe Japan, maybe ex-soviet countries) can appreciate well the int
Level values. The risk of a devolution is not totally groundless.
5) Every level has an Environment, that is the arena of the horizontal
fight.
At the 1st level, environment is.. the space-time universe. At 2nd level,
the biosphere. At 3rd level.... economy system. At 4th level.... well , in
this part I'm talking about the past; wait a little.
6) All Patterns search for freedom by the "laws" of lower levels.
Last week was hot here in northern Italy. At my job bureau, we used air con.
But it's October, so suddenly a northern cold wind has come and we passed
from 25 Celsius to 15 in two days. (Bo, I felt your fiords breath!) So we
are going to use soon the heating system. That's the good of society! I
don't care a lot for inorganic patterns like wind, rain, snow... These
inorganic patterns cause problems to the bio patterns (need for a nest, for
example); now, thanks to social patterns (the Giant) these problems are ...
very small. It doesn't mean that I'm totally immune from their action. It's
impossible to be free from lower patterns at all.
Leighton J. E. wrote:
> One of the key features of the MOQ so far is that each level is dependent
on
> the existence of the previous one... so I have some thoughts on the
> evolution of the intellectual level... namely, its dependence on the
> biological level could be removed.
Not removed at all! But surely men will be free from bio patterns, that are
still problems at a social level) more than in the past. This is really
evolution: an escape from lower laws; (especially
from entropy). (Lila ch. 11). This escape causes often conflicts between the
levels (vertical fight), especially when new level arise.
PART II - ...BE PRESENT...
I want to mean.. we must not only "know" this present situation... we must
live it! If we are on a newborn level, this means that we are in a very
Dynamic situation.
7) The fight versus society is still present.
We are still in the situation of a vertical fight versus society, that is
especially versus the world that is not still in the 4th level. This
explains this "strange" (socially illogic) wars western countries are
fighting: under the
Banner of ONU (that means not only for my people); without conquering
someone else's ground (in
fact Saddam and Milosevic are still sitting on their chair). Ok, surely
there is a lot of rhetorical stuff that covers some different target; but
it's
important that western public opinion could not bear a "classic" war for
conquests.
Our int level western society is fighting the battle in the economic
environment, of course. It's the only environment possible. You can't fight
Saddam with intellect. You can't satisfy the hunger of African, Indian,
Chines people with intellect. So we need SOM (that is the intellect useful
for economic environment) until the economic world will be stable.
8) It's also the time to fight horizontally against SOM.
Ok. It's our time now. The intellectual battles, in social level age, were
fought in Agoras (ancient Greece), Forums (ancient Rome), paper (after
Gutemberg), television (XX century). Now there is the NET. This is the new
environment! I'm sure.
Note this: the NET has been created by SOM science for social purposes and
meanwhile also for intellectual purposes; now is a perfect vehicle for
intellectual patterns; is everywhere in western countries; is following the
int Level expansion (is going to be everywhere also in Eastern Europe);
it's not very popular where society is still dominant; is going to create a
definitive economy. And... is going to give us freedom from a lot of social
problems
caused by biologic patterns: for example, you don't know if I'm tall, short,
black,
white, fat, slim, man, woman..... you are just reading my words.... and
it's only the beginning!
9) We have inside unknown possibilities
John B
> The power of
> fantasy is immense. Try this experiment. Attempt to hold your arms
straight up over your
> head for the next hour or two. After ten minutes you are likely to be
physically exhausted, and
> happy to tell me the exercise is physically impossible. Really? Visit your
nearest hypnotist,
> and you will find that in a hypnotic 'trance' what was impossible becomes
simple. (Thanks to
> Julian Jaynes for this example.)
As I said, the cave baby of 50,000 B.C. was genetically like us. So we are
genetically like the men of 50,000 A.D. So we could do now what they will
do. We have somewhere in our DNA the chance to build the 5th level. It's
usual to read that we use only a very small part of our brain...
We don't need to be super men... society was created by men , as a
collective masterpiece. Then society has been able to develop to the Giant.
Intellectual level was created by men in a DQ collective event, and it's
developing. When men will need something else, in a new wonderful collective
DQ event men will create the new level.
...AND YOU CAN FIND THE FUTURE
Now we have all the tools we need!
10) Shall we ever see the fifth level?
JoVo
> If there exist a fifth
> level, can man be able to recognize it?
Yes, I guess. The fifth level will be created by men, when they will feel
that "only" intellect is not enough. They will need something else. Their
intellectual patterns will encounter DQ. There's only a problem. It's soon.
Bo wrote:
> After all, the Inorganic is the age of the
> universe, Biology as multi-cellular organisms is 1.5 billion years
> (according to the latest theory) and Society (in the Q sense) at
> least some hundred thousands years.
I agree. Extrapolating the duration of 4th level could be .... 5000 years?
(also 100 is enough for us).
11) We MUST search for the 5th level.
It's moral. It's searching DQ.
DLT
> Possible Candidate #1
>
> "Global Awareness or Global Brain"- A transition which will lead to the
> integration of the whole of humanity, producing a human "super being", or
> merely enhance the capabilities of individuals, thus producing a multitude
of
> "meta-beings". This evolutionary transition to a higher level of
complexity
> has been discussed since ancient Greek times and is gaining steam via
> computers, AI, networks, etc. etc. This link which I posted last month on
MD
> has a separate private discussion group with an e mail archive and
articles
> dedicated to this topic.
>
> Possible Candidate #2
> "Conscious Evolution" Again this has been around in one form or another
since
> prehistoric farmers selected one plant over another. But his via 'Genome
type
> Projects" would involve continous, active participation in genetic
evolution.
Denis
> The Fifth level must therefore not go on 'non-thinking', but more on a
> developpment of the symbolic world (mythology and science are symbolic
> worlds) into "something else". What ? I've no idea. Tell me if you can
> think of something based on what I've just said.
Marco:
The Net will be everywhere. ( 2030 A.D.)
Technology will create a world without the need of job. (2150)
The total population will slowly decrease (2300)
The duration of life will increase up to 200 years (2400)
Men will use intellect to reach new form of happiness, like the happiness to
be everywhere every time with everyone (2500)
....... it's 5 minutes I try to find something else.... but I can't. Is
there some SF writer else?
Be Good!
Marco.
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
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