From: David MOREY (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Sat Dec 20 2003 - 13:51:48 GMT
Can you clarify two things for me.
1) Often people talk about intellect in terms
of logic/maths on this site. Do you consider
Freud/Weber intellectuals? Clearly they are
concerned with redescribing society and human
understanding. Often by using new language and
metaphors. Poets also do similar things, so are
2) Quality is linked by Pirsig to experience.
Therefore when choices are being made with
respect to quality this does imply judgement, but
is not judgement always implied when choice and
quality are brought together? When you say that
atoms are influenced by quality when combining do
you imply that atoms have a form of experience to
be able to move towards what has the greater quality?
Perhaps there is a form of natural selection at this level
but as there are no fossils of failed versions of water for example
we have not been able to work it out. I think the incredible
importance of the successful version of water for the forms
of life we have is somehow suspicious. Of course, life influences
the presence of water on the planet as well by recycling it.
Are you making any distinction between what is quality for
human beings and what is quality when there is not what we nornally
think of as an experience of quality?
3) I find it hard to see what we mean by the social level in
isolation as if this could exist without the activity of human intelligence.
All traditions and customs and productive practices have been
created and enabled to endure with implied intention/use/purpose.
If purpose/use/intention have been recognised then intelligence is at work.
What we seem to mean on this site by intellgence is something more
individualistic, abstract, and aimed in the direction of rapid social change
and development of increasing DQ possibiliities. Individualistic intelligence
seems to begin when DQ opens up, when it becomes realised that how we
live now and what we think now is open to change and improvement and
challenge. But before written history and rapid change there was a very slow
development of intelligence that contains stuff like wouldn't this wheel
thing make out lives better, only the grasp of the implications of change
brought by the wheel may have been very limited. And I guess it was not
abstractly drawn out on a planning board, but is it so very different to a
I do not want to go off topic but thought it might help to understand
your position if you can clarify the above.
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