From: Valence (email@example.com)
Date: Thu Dec 25 2003 - 06:07:10 GMT
"As the atom is to the physical level, and the gene is to the biological
level, and the tribe is to
the social level, so is X to the intellectual level" - What is X?
James said, "Truth is one species of good, and not, as is usually
supposed, a category distinct from good, and coordinate with it." He said,
"The true is the name of whatever proves itself to be good in the way of
"*Truth is a species of good*." That was right on. That was *exactly*
what is meant by the Metaphysics of Quality. Truth is a static intellectual
pattern *within* a larger entity called Quality.
If the MoQ subscribes to the theory that the true is the name of whatever
proves itself to be good in the way of belief, and it also states that truth
is an intellectual pattern, then the X in Sam's question must = a believer.
A believer must be adjusting its beliefs to whatever is proving to be good.
Which I think is basically what Sam means when he says...
> It is the human judgment that has a relationship with value, and a human
judgment which says whether a
> particular symbol has value or not....
Which makes me inclined to agree with Sam when writes...
I can't see the point of building up a level on a derivative
aspect, rather than the primary aspect.
Which seems like exactly what Pirsig is doing when writes...
PIRSIG (letter to Paul)
.. it seems to me the greatest
meaning can be given to the intellectual level if it is confined to the
skilled manipulation of abstract symbols that have no corresponding
particular experience and which behave according to rules of their own.
If the intellectual patterns called "truth" embrace whatever proves to be
good in the way of belief, then it's hard to understand how confining the
entire level to the skilled manipulation of abstract symbols that have no
corresponding particular experience and which behave according to rules of
their own could give the 4th level its "greatest meaning". On the contrary,
with respect to scope it seems to drastically narrow the meaning of
'intellectual pattern'. With respect to quality of explanation, it seems
obscure and minimize the greater MoQ point that 4th level is primarily about
the exercise of judgment over beliefs in response to the good. To emphasize
[The MoQ] says that what is meant by "human rights" is usually the moral
code of intellect-vs. - society, the moral right of intellect to be free of
social control. Freedom of speech; freedom of assembly, of travel; trial by
jury; habeas corpus; government by consent-these "human rights" are all
intellect-vs.- society issues. According to the Metaphysics of Quality these
"human rights" have not just a sentimental basis, but a rational,
To my ear, it sounds silly to say that the rational, metaphysical source of
our human rights, the moral right of intellect to be free from social
control, is rooted strictly in the need for freedom to skillfully manipulate
abstract symbols that have no corresponding particular experience and which
behave according to rules of their own. It sounds far more coherent to say
that the rational, metaphysical source of our human rights, the moral right
of intellect to be free from social control, is rooted in the need for
freedom to adjust our beliefs in response to quality.
Okay, that's my two cents for now.
"Good judgment comes from experience; and experience, well, that comes from
bad judgment." - Anonymous
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