From: David MOREY (email@example.com)
Date: Sat Dec 27 2003 - 18:18:13 GMT
Amilcar:But this tiff i have with those distinctions comes from
the fact that i think that the MOQ hierarchy should read 'quantum,
physical, biological, individual,THEN social' simply because you can't have any of
the latter without the former. DNA without atoms, or biology without carbon,
entities without DNA? Those seem to me just as foolish as the thought of
society without individuals, or thought without brains (or thinker). But
then again, society doesn't 'choose' its members nor vice versa, which
is another issue altogether.
DM:I find this post very interesting. I think the biggest weakness in
Pirsig's books is the levels and the explanation/description and the way they are
I think understanding the quantum levels is key. The photon is very much
something immaterial, no mass, and at speed of light -no time. The freedom
from constraint starts to disappear with particles that have mass, and even
moreso with chargeless atoms. Combined atoms are restrained by the cancelling
out of the activity /agitation of atoms in combination. It is from the constrined freedom of
the molecular that we develop notions of law and determinism. The reliability and
predictability of the molecular enable the cosmos to go on to achieve life:plants/animals/man. These are
the obvious levels.
The levels of life are moving away from physicality to an actual dynamic quality/freedom within
reality. It also seems clear that as we go from plant to animal the evolution towards greater complexity/
possibilities/freedom becomes focused on individuals. Not only does mankind
have great possibilities, the differences and potentials vary by individual. Therefore I think that
the levels have to go biology/society/individual.It is only via society/language/culture/industry/etc that the
fullness of individuality emerges.
Only in society is the individual able to reach out across the cosmos to encounter its reality and meaning.
I think the intellectual level is a false idea. Intelligence in different forms occurs at all levels. It is only
with the social individual that it reaches its particularly rich and identifiable form where in language it
is able to play with the possibility of writing a poem about the whole of being. Or as Heidegger switches it:
man is Being's poem. Really he should say the individual 'poet-scientist'.
The levels and analysis here comes from Arthur M Young's admirable Reflexive Universe -a cosmic
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