Re: MF Discussion Topic for February 2005

From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Wed Mar 16 2005 - 16:00:44 GMT

  • Next message: Matt poot: "Re: MF Discussion Topic for March 2005"

    dmb:
    '...if we're talking about where such things [emotions] should be
    categorized within the four levels of static quality, as Pirsig seems to be doing in putting
    feeling at the biological level, it seems that the social level is the only
    reasonable place to put that list of emotions.'

    Mark 16-03-05:
    I have some sympathy with dmb's view, but i do not agree with it.
    Here is a suggestion:
    'Emotions are sophisticated patterns of biological values conditioned by
    social and intellectual patterns of values.' (MM 22-02-05)
    Thus emotions are biological in nature, which serve social patterns when
    good, and undermine social patterns when bad. This view has wide textual support:

    (1) The MOQ seems to classify compassion as a pattern of social cohesion
    driven by strong biological emotions. When these two are combined with intellectual
    patterns of quality the result is a strong force for the good, as in the abolition of
    slavery. When compassion opposes intellectual quality, however the result can be
    foolishness or even evil.
    (2) Genuine compassion and talk about compassion often have different
    purposes.
    When compassion is talked up intellectually there sometimes emerges a
    certain aroma of unction and piousness that makes me suspicious. Some preachers
    use compassion the way Uriah Heep [Heep is a character in Dickens David
    Copperfield] uses humility, i.e. to advance themselves.
    (3) The narrative of ZMM is dominated by the compassion of the narrator for his son
    even though he doesn talk about it as such, and when Phaedrus says Lila has
    quality he is speaking compassionately and is held in contempt for this by Rigel
    [the lawyer character epitomising social values in LILA]. Rigel is arguing that Phaedrus
    compassion for Lila is damned foolishness. Phaedrus struggles in subsequent chapters
    to show that it is intellectually sound.
    (Pirsig 2002e in McWatt Phd Dec 2004 footnote 117 P.212)

    Mark 16-03-05:
    There are other indications that emotions have a biological nature:

    This opposition of levels of static patterns offers a good explanation of why
    science in the past has rejected what it has called values The values it has
    rejected are static social prejudices and static biological emotions. When social
    patterns such as religion are mixed in with the scientific method, and when
    biological emotions are mixed in with the scientific method these values are
    properly considered a source of corruption of the scientific method.
    Science, it is said should be 8value free, and if these were the only kind of values
    the statement would be true.
    However, the Metaphysics of Quality observe that these two kinds of values
    [i.e. the biological and the social] are lower on the evolutionary ladder than the
    intellectual pattern of science. Science rejects them to set free its own higher
    intellectual pattern [of truth]. The Metaphysics of Quality calls this a correct
    moral judgment by science. (Pirsig, 1995a, p.15)
    (SODV quoted in McWatt PhD P.116)

    For a person who is not yet enlightened the way to avoid confusion may be
    to ask of each desire, 8Is this a common ego desire? Is this a common sensual
    desire? If not, then maybe the quality which stimulates the desire is Dynamic.
    If it is a common sensual or egotistic desire, however, then one should wait a few
    days and see if the desire weakens or goes away. Sensuality and egotism have a
    way of waxing and waning in the manner of the emotions, whereas Dynamic
    Quality tends to be steady and patient, in the manner of Gandhis favorite
    Christian hymn, Lead Kindly Light
    (Pirsig, 1997a quoted in McWatt PhD P.117)

    In the third box are the biological patterns. (Pirsig, 1995a, p.14)
    These include the functions, structures and processes of biology (such as
    reproduction and DNA) studied by geneticists, microbiologists, botanists and
    zoologists. Instances of biological quality include health and physical pleasure.
    (McWatt PhD P.104)

    Mark 17-03-05:
    That emotions do not have a social nature is supported by the following:

    The social patterns in the next box down include such institutions as family,
    church and government. They are the patterns of culture that the anthropologist and
    sociologist study. (Pirsig, 1995a, p.14)
    For the sake of clarity, it should be noted that the social patterns, denoted by the
    MOQ, tend to refer only to behaviour that is learnt through imitation (such
    as rituals and social customs) rather than hard-wired genetic behaviour
    (as, for instance, observed in ant colonies). As with his definition of 8intellectual, Pirsig
    justifies this cutting-off point on the grounds that if the term social is expanded
    too far, it becomes meaningless. (ibid P.99-100)

    It appears that the evolutionary purposes of social patterns of value (such as ritual
    and custom) were developed to preserve and improve biological patterns. To the
    extent that social customs and institutions reproduce, preserve, and protect the
    relationships within a given society for the good of that society, they may be
    regarded as 8social quality. (ibid P.101)

    Mark 17-03-05:
    If we view emotions in a social context, we may say that biological patterns
    or emotional states, may be learned through imitation - carrot and stick to
    put it bluntly. But the biological nature of emotions is being used to either
    improve or undermine social cohesion, Pirsig: 'The MOQ seems to classify
    compassion as a pattern of social cohesion driven by strong biological emotions.'
    Therefore, the suggestion that, 'Emotions are sophisticated patterns of
    biological values conditioned by social and intellectual patterns of values'
    provides a good description of where emotions operate in the MoQ.

    Mark

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