Re: MF Discussion Topic for May 2005 - individual worth

Date: Mon May 23 2005 - 16:30:00 BST

  • Next message: Mark Steven Heyman: "Re: MF Discussion Topic for May 2005 - individual worth"

    Hello Sam and msh and All,

    Mark 23-05-05:
    msh replied to Sam:
    It is neither. It's more like this:

    L4 -> DQ
    L3 -> DQ
    L2 -> DQ
    L1 -> DQ

    Mark 23-05-05:
    I agree with msh.
    Further, the little vertical arrows Mark H places between each level provide
    a good representation Coherence:

    '...each static level is placed in a hierarchy from the inorganic (lower
    value or coherence) to the intellectual (higher value or coherence) i.e. the
    earliest levels (in cosmological history) are perceived in the MOQ as less
    'valuable' than subsequent ones...

    '...cosmological evolution, far from undermining the idea of a spiritual
    universe, actually supports the idea of at least a universal tendency
    towards sophisticated value states without having to hold the more extreme
    notions of a pre-ordained design or pure chance (as suggested by Jacques
    Monod). Moreover, if a universal tendency towards coherency and freedom
    reflects the 'Good' then possibly 'Evil' (to refer to the quote at the
    beginning of this chapter) is the universal tendency towards chaos i.e. the
    breakdown of static levels to lower ones (as manifested, for instance, in
    the end of a civilisation or the biological death of an individual). (McWatt
    2004b, p. 91)

    Mark 23-05-05:
    Sam's May 2005 topic question wishes to explore individual worth and the
    MOQ. DQ is both motivator and goal of evolution for all patterns, all
    levels, simultaneously, especially in the world of everyday affairs: 'The
    reality of the American government isn't static, he said, it's dynamic. If
    we don't like it we'll get something better. The American government isn't
    going to get stuck on any set of fancy doctrinaire ideas.' ZMM

    'The real cycle you're working on is a cycle called yourself. The machine
    that appears to be "out there" and the person that appears to be "in here"
    are not two separate things. They grow toward Quality or fall away from
    Quality together.' ZMM

    Mark 23-05-05:
    In the language of the MOQ, we may wish to say the relationship of all
    patterns (machine and maintainer) grow toward coherence or fall away from
    coherence together.

    'The universe is evolving from a condition of low quality (quantum forces
    only, no atoms, pre-big bang) toward a higher one (birds, trees, societies
    and thoughts) and in a static sense (world of everyday affairs) these two
    are not the same.' (Pirsig, 1997a) By higher quality patterns, I think
    Pirsig denotes the following:
    1. Of having a higher harmony, whether biological (e.g. health), social
    (e.g. political agreement), intellectual (e.g. mathematical solutions).
    2. Anything that opposes the force of entropy; that tends toward order
    rather than disorder.
    3. The development of increasingly complex and sophisticated levels.
    4. Something that increases the potentiality (or freedom) for new value
    5. As noted above in the context of complexity theory 'a further and greater
    ordered coherence.'
    (McWatt 2004b, p.108)

    In the language of the MOQ, a 'sweet spot' may be described as a high state
    of coherence or harmony between static quality patterns producing a Dynamic
    event that displays high coherence (between the extremes of chaotic
    disruption and static stagnation). As illustrated by the German writer,
    Eugen Herrigel (1938, p.73), the Zen Master uses archery as a means to
    achieve Dynamic Quality because the archer must balance his loosing of the
    shot at a very fine point.
    The most famous example of the 'sweet spot' provided by Pirsig (1974a,
    p.296- 97) is motorcycle maintenance: Zen Buddhists talk about 'just
    sitting,' a meditative practice in which the idea of a duality of self and
    object does not dominate one's consciousness. What I'm talking about here in
    motorcycle maintenance is 'just fixing,' in which the idea of a duality of
    self and object doesn't dominate one's consciousness. When one isn't
    dominated by feelings of separateness from what he's working on, then one
    can be said to 'care' about what he's doing. That is what caring really is,
    a feeling of identification with what one's doing. When one has this feeling
    then he also sees the inverse side of caring, Quality itself.
    (McWatt 2004a p.122-3)

    All the best,

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