Jason Gaedtke (jgaedtke@scitele.com)
Fri, 5 Sep 1997 03:58:42 +0100
Bodvar:
Yes! Yes! Yes!
How can the subjective (consciousness in her vocabulary) and the
objective
(matter) have a common ancestor in matter - even if she calls it quantum
reality? [Whoops. This very moment it dawned on me why Jason and Doug
emphasized the uniqueness of the "Quantum World" so much. Hmm !].
This is EXACTLY what Doug and I were getting at! According to Zohar's
interpretation (a very plausible one, I think), the constituent essence
of
quantum reality involves a more fundamental collection of value patterns
than ordinary inorganic ones. We must be careful in our use of
terminology
here...
Matter, is a SO term. According to quantum physics (see chapter 13, The
Dynamic Universe, in "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra) matter is,
in
essence, a stable form of underlying energy (value) patterns. To refer
to
the body (i.e. brain) as matter/objective and the mind as subjective is
to
remain in a SO framework. Pirsig's MoQ delays this dichotomy, declaring
that all reality fundamentally exists as stable patterns of value left
in
the wake of Dynamic Quality -- the source of all things. Subjects and
objects only come later. It is of utmost importance that we keep this
in
mind, especially when discussion the so-called Mind/Body problem.
As an aside, Platt's recent question regarding the "experience"
phenomena
meshes well here. Experience, as I understand it, is another term for
the
Quality Event. That is, experience is the point at which Static and
Dynamic Quality interact. At the most basic level, this interaction is
quantum in nature -- leading to the creation of 'something' out of
'nothing.' Static patterns (particles, atoms, molecules, (intuitive
thoughts?) etc.) are created out of the elusive "vacuum" that I referred
to
earlier. This vacuum contains the Dynamic potential for all being --
with
no unique characteristics of its own.
Viewed in this light, "experience" occurs in each of the levels of the
MoQ.
This is not a strictly human or biological phenomena. Subatomic
particles
simply have a more basic "experience" than animals, people or societies.
Now back to the issue at hand -- the fundamental nature of quantum
phenomena. If quantum phenomena are in fact an integral part of our
conscious experience -- bridging the gap between Static and Dynamic
Quality, possibly through Bose-Einstein condensates -- then these events
cannot be under-emphasized in our evolving metaphysics. To say that
quantum-level Bose-Einstein condensates (or similar quantum phenomena)
are
a necessary condition for our "experience" of consciousness is something
very different than saying that consciousness (i.e. subjective
experience)
is rooted in matter. Quantum level events could very well be the
missing
link that unites our traditional notions of mind and body in one complex
bundle of values! (More accurately, quantum events unite Static and
Dynamic Quality, leaving what we refer to as subjects and objects
(both
static patterns of value) as they go.)
Before I close I should say a few words concerning my feeling regarding
AI.
As I have disclosed in my brief bio, I am a software engineer by trade.
As such, I have had a good deal of exposure to this area of
investigation.
In fact, I have spent much of the last four years studying neural
networks, genetic algorithms, expert systems, fuzzy logic and hybrid
combinations of the these.
Although I do agree that traditional approaches hold much potential for
success in developing pseudo-intelligent machines, I do not believe that
a
truly conscious computer can or will be possible without incorporating
the
quantum underpinnings of our biological systems.
To state this another way, it will very likely be possible to create
some
pretty impressive adaptive learning machines using artificial neural
networks. We will also be able to "can" much of our existing knowledge
in
the form of decision-making expert systems. (see http://www.cyc.com for
one impressive example) The resulting machines will appear to exhibit
truly "intelligent" behavior. However, without addressing the most
fundamental aspects of our being -- namely quantum events -- we will
NEVER
develop an algorithm that embodies the full conscious experience. (For
a
good account of traditional approaches to this problem see
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5243/index.html; bear in mind
that this is a limited SO account!)
Based on my reading, I am beginning to realize a framework for a new
novel
approach to the problem of AI:
(1) quantum-level subsystem (replicating the behavior of
naturally
occurring Bose-Einstein condensates): primarily quantum/inorganic
patterns
-------
(2) combinational genetic algorithms (involving the competition
of many
possible states, of which only the strongest will survive):
biological/pseudo-biological patterns (as suggested earlier by Magnus)
-------
(3) neural networks / fuzzy logic (adaptive learning, filtering,
pattern
recognition; knowledge storage): biological AND social patterns
-------
(4) expert systems (inductive and deductive reasoning leading to
new
conclusions): social and intellectual patterns
(Some of the important aspects of the genetic algorithm layer may
actually
take place at the quantum level, since the superposition of all possible
states that exists prior to the collapse of the wave function parallels
this process.)
I'm sure that many of these ideas are new to the majority of the list.
As
always, please feel free to offer your questions and comments.
Regards,
Jason
-- post message - mailto:skwok@spark.net.hk unsubscribe/queries - mailto:lilasquad@geocities.com homepage - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4670
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b3 on Thu May 13 1999 - 16:41:55 CEST