Dave Thomas (dlt44@ipa.net)
Tue, 18 Nov 1997 03:13:53 +0100
Doug wrote:
> Diana, could we put the partial tree of philosophy here?
Diana responded to Doug:
> This seems unnecessarily complicated. I don't see that these "levels"
> clarify the explanation. A metaphysics is an explanation of reality -
> it's simple enough.
Agree. The responses in the individual FAQ's on the most basic items of MoQ
need to be just that, Basic and Simple. They should, in so much is possible,
deal just with Pirsig's ideas and not with the existing structure of
philosophy or metaphysics. As time permits those items that have good
explainations on other philosophy sites could alway be linked, if thought
desirable. To paraphase Phaedus if MoQ is broad enough he could just slip in
underneath without having to rebuild the entire structure.
Some suggests in to Diana's FAQ's [brackets]
> What is a metaphysics?
>
> A metaphysics is a theory that explains the fundamental nature and [underlying] structure of reality.
Think underlying is important because part of the trap SOM philosophers fell
into was avoiding, or not clearly stating what their metaphysical base was.
> What is Quality?
>
> Quality is moral value. It may also be described as goodness or right-ness. Quality may also be understood as experience, the pure direct experience of "now".
>
What is the Metaphysics of Quality?
>
> The Metaphysics of Quality is a theory that says that the fundamental
> nature of reality is that it is moral value (also refered to as Quality,
> goodness, experience etc). This value is divided first into dynamic and
> static patterns of value. The static patterns are further divided into
> four levels of value -- inorganic, biological, social and intellectual.
I have a problem with including "moral""goodness"right-ness" in these basic
definitions for two reasons:
1.These words are loaded with all kinds of SOM meaning which will require much
thought and explanation to clearly convey in MoQ terms, even to TLS.
2.Quality(All of reality) has both static & dynamic values these words implies
there in no "negative" qualities in reality, which is just not so. ie the Lila
low quality stove example. My Quality shot would be:
Quality is value. In the particular sense(ie talking about that dog over
there), Quality is all the values, elements, characteristics, that make
something what it is. In the broadest sense (ie talking about the cosmos and
beyond), Quality is the sum total of all values that makes up reality.
I also do not think we can over emphasize "all" and "value" in making the
transition from quality to understanding. This leaves the way open for values
that we as yet do not know to become via DQ.
See [brackets]
>
> What is static quality?
>
> Static quality is what gives order to the world. It provides a latch for
> the advances made by dynamic quality. It is [all those values which make up the] routine,
> structure, normality, organization, conformity, the expected, stability,
> any pheonomenon [that changes imperceptively slow.]
>
> What is inorganic quality?
>
> Inorganic quality is[all values which are characteristic of] matter. (ie mass, electrons, protons, hardness, chemical properties, charge)
>
> What is biological quality?
>
> Biological quality is[all values which are characteristic of] life and that which propagates life.
>
> What is social quality?
>
> Social quality is [all values or] phenomenon that propagates social order - laws,
> institutions, manners, classes, castes, religion, fashions and so on.
>
> What is intellectual quality?
>
> Intellectual quality is [all values or] phenomenon that [emanates from the mind of man]
> [reason] - democracy, freedom of speech, mathematics, philosophy and so on.
Which lead to the question someone can surely help me with
Is Pirsig saying that Quality is capable of make the distinction between right
and wrong?
If so where does that leave free will?
Dave.
-- post message - mailto:skwok@spark.net.hk unsubscribe/queries - mailto:diana@asiantravel.com homepage - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4670
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