Murdock, Mark (Mark.Murdock@Unisys.Com)
Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:18:19 +0100
> > > I disagree...There's no objects or subjects anyplace in logic.
> There
> > > are
> > > just symbols, and rules for manipulating them. And logic is
> rational
> > > thinking par excellence
> > >
> > So logic needs no logician? Your suggesting it exists in some
> > objective state free from subjective awareness. Did logic "exist"
> > before Boolean?
> > I think Pirsig explored a similar avenue with respect
> > to the law of gravity. If I'm not mistaken, he concluded that the
> law
> > of gravity did not "exist" before Newton.
>
> well.. The phenomenon of gravity most certainly did exist before
> Newton. I
> hope we can agree on this. Stuff fell to the ground before newton.
>
> In the same way logic existed before Aristoteles (not Boolean) put the
> first theory of logic into writing. People selling goats in the
> streets of
> Athen knew that they couldn't contradict themselves in a sentence, and
> at
> the same time say something true. I mean logic was floating around
> "unspoken", before Aristoteles.
>
> (it is certainly a viable point of view to think of contradictions not
> as
> false, but rather as senseless but that's not relevant to this
> discussion)
>
> But in any event this doesn't even relate to our discussion, because
> the
> theory of gravity most certainly deals with objects as opposed to
> subjects,
> and therefore supports the subject-object schism. While logic per
> definition doesn't deal with objects or subjects, but deals with the
> truthfullness of sentences.
>
Sorry to appear tangential to your original thread, but you are using
the terms "subject" and "object" in an unusual way for me. Could you
please help me understand? Do you agree that "subject" implies the self
and "objects" are all that is not self?
>From ZMM, we know that you and logic are One thing, Quality. It is only
our dualistic conventions separate the two for convenience.
If you are saying that logic deals with things which are not subjects,
nor objects, then, according to Pirsig, you have defined Quality.
And logic is not the source and substance of all things (thankfully).
If you are trying to say that, look, logic exists independent of any
thinker, you are espousing dualistic thinking.
So if you are saying none of these, then you have a different definition
for "subject" and "object."
This is where I would like help.
> --
> post message - mailto:skwok@spark.net.hk
> unsubscribe/queries - mailto:diana@asiantravel.com
> homepage - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4670
>
>
>
-- post message - mailto:skwok@spark.net.hk unsubscribe/queries - mailto:diana@asiantravel.com homepage - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4670
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b3 on Thu May 13 1999 - 16:42:14 CEST