Doug Renselle (renselle@on-net.net)
Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:35:30 +0100
Hi Bo and TLS!
Bodvar Skutvik wrote:
>
> Hello Ken and LS.
>
> The Libet Experiment continued...................................
...
>
> What I will add for my own account is that this is a biological
> equivalent to Quantum Physics.
...
> No, the SOM is incapable of explaining it, but the MOQ
> - which is built upon the very idea of a ladder of levels - can, at
> least do I feel its potential here. The Intellectual level (in the
> consciousness sense) is the last instance to be notified, but a lot o
> "subjective" tricking is needed for it to look as the initiator and
> arbiter of things. Okay, it CAN interrupt and override lower level's
> workings (as can the Social level), but then one becomes awkward and
> "self-conscious". (I know it only too well!)
>
...
> If anyone managed to read this. Thanks.
>
> Bo.
Bo and TLS,
Good stuff Bo. If you recall, I think Hugo, Gene, and I touched on this
from a different perspective some time ago. Hugo, more recently
emphasized the issue for discussion here. Platt, I think intuits this
well. Clearly, you do.
Good old SOM...It will let you down every time.
Allow me to put a slightly different 'spin' on this.
Libet's interpretation of a backwards in time effect is purely a
manifestation of a SOMite viewing reality with SOM blinders on.
What do we know SOM always does? It limits our thinking to the
objective aspects of reality (as you eloquently stated above). It also
practices biformal and human-centric thought dogma/doctrine (which keeps
the SOMites forever caught in their underware of paradice [i.e.,
paradoxes]).
According to SOM, humans are unique, separate, reducible, local, and
isolable. Humans each have (a, one, [1]) mind. The mind is located in
the skull ("How could it possibly be anywhere else?"). SOMites have a
hard time even accepting the fact that animals have minds, let alone
lesser SPoVs (Static/stable Patterns of Value). But if they do allow
for other SPoVs to have minds - the minds, as always by SOM edict, are
located in the skull. Minds are localized according to SOM. Even if we
say sentience is a precursor to mind, the SOMites still say sentience is
unique to humans and it still resides only in the skull.
MoQ, QM (quantum mechanics), and Zen say sentience is not local. Hugo
averred this very well recently. Herrigel's experience with the Zen
Master, and Capra's chapter on 'interpenetration' make it (to some still
quite speculatively) clear that sentience scales and is ubiquitous.
Sentience appears to be a dynamic interrelationship among ALL SPoVs and
DQ (Dynamic Quality).
If this is true (and I believe it is -- and the quantum physicists
resist admitting it, but quite bluntly they have proven it
[acknowledging the limits of proof]), it explains why the inorganic
level can sense and react far quicker (for the good of GOOD SPoV's
survival) than the intellectual level.
>From the objective, in-the-skull-centric context a subjective backwards
in time rationale is the only thing that can possibly be true as Libet
concluded (or else we just have another one of the many classical SOM
paradice).
But from the non-centric-, ubiquitous- and scaled-sentient context,
there is no need for the backwards in time rationale. As you stated,
Bo, the sentience at the inorganic and biological levels acted before
and without control from the intellectual level.
For me this is further evidence of Pirsig's vast prescience. It is
further evidence of the potent analogue twixt MoQ and QM. It is further
evidence that MoQ's subsumption of SOM must happen sooner than later
(Platt, et al., that is precisely why I am an activist.).
I don't know about you, but it dismays me that the future of our world
is partially/mostly in the hands of SOM-landers. You may assuage my
negative energy on this, but still I do not like it!
Thanks Bo!
Mtty,
Doug Renselle.
>
-- "That figure whose attitude best expresses the passion that moves it is most worthy of praise."Leonardo da Vinci, MS 2038, Biblioteque Nationale, Paris, 29v.
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