Diana McPartlin (diana@asiantravel.com)
Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:13:36 +0100
Hi Ant and squad
Ant McWatt wrote:
> I'm sorry to insist on this point but the statement
> "Quality is the ethical principle of Quality (or the Good)"
> doesn't scan well; it seems to state that Quality is a part
> of itself which is not logical.
>
> Having said this, to state that Quality is an ethical
> principle is a good point so I suggest it could be
> re-phrased as something like "The MOQ perceives reality as
> being in a moral order" or "The MOQ perceives reality as
> being ethical".
We could reduce it to "Quality is ethical", but I think "Quality is the
ethical principle of the good" is more elegant. In another post to Platt
I've suggested having a separate morality principle. If we can agree on
that then it might be better to take the references to morality out of
the Quality principle altogether, like this:
Quality
Quality is reality. Quality is known to us as awareness. As such is
impossible to define.
Morality is then dealt with separately as:
Morality
Morality is a synonym for Quality. Thus reality is a moral order. A
phenomenon is considered moral, or high Quality, to the extent that it
perpetuates freedom.
> I'm not so sure whether the MOQ (being a set of static
> intellectual patterns) is actually a path to enlightenment.
> I certainly wouldn`t put that on the Internet. However, I
> think you can say that the MOQ can assist on a mystic
> journey to enlightenment.
But Anthony that's absolutely wrong. The MoQ doesn't assist on a mystic
journey to enlightenment. It's precisely the opposite of a mystic
journey to enlightenment. Mystic journeys to enlightenment involve the
shutting out of intellectual patterns. The MoQ journey is the opening up
of intellectual patterns.
> Value. The second line would be more intelligible if it
> said something like "In the MOQ the determinate phrase "A
> causes B" is replaced by the indeterminate phrase "B values
> pre-condition A". There is no such thing as substance as
> commonly thought within the MOQ. In this system everything
> that exists is perceived as some type of value."
Basically that's the same thing as saying that "Value encompasses what
are usually known as causation and substance" -- except that my sentence
is more concise. However that principle is rather ungainly at the moment
and I'm sure it's going to get another work over pretty soon so I'll
keep your comments in mind.
> Dynamic Quality and static quality. For the second line
> I'd state "Dynamic Quality is pure, indeterminate
> experience; static quality is stable, determinate
> experience". It sounds like you`re saying that Dynamic
> Quality can`t be distinguished; that is what mystic
> experience is for.
Actually I've changed that to say "Dynamic Quality is pure experience;
static quality is filtered experience"
I think it is better to leave Dynamic Quality as simple and undefined as
possible, because that's precisely what it is -- something that can't be
defined. As for static quality. Well you can go on and on forever adding
more descriptive terms for it. The challenge is to reduce it to its
simplest terms. The idea of stability is already included in the next
sentence "Dynamic Quality creates the world; static quality preserves
it" so it's not necessary to repeat it.
"Dynamic Quality is pure experience; static quality is filtered
experience" is supposed to describe the nature of Dynamic and static
quality as opposed to what they do and what they feel like. That
difference is best summed up in the idea that static quality is a
handful of sand, while Dynamic Quality is the whole desert. I think that
"static quality is filtered experience" is the closest I can get to
that. There are different types of filters, but what they all have in
common is that they force us to look at one aspect of reality at the
exclusion of all the rest.
>
> This quote comes from the middle of the first page (in
> bold) in the essay which I asked Pirsig to check (before
> submission). He stated that "It will be interesting to see
> if there is anyone who can find legitimate fault with it.
> I find none" so I highly doubt the "slice quote" is out of
> context.
What is Quality a slice of?
> The "immediate" component of the above is something you
> also take issue with. Is reality only the present or are
> the past and future equally real? A good question. Again
> in the above essay, Pirsig didn't query the phrase
> "immediate" in the context of "undivided experience"
> because he equates "Quality" with F.S.C. Northrop's
> "aesthetic continuum" which Northrop defines as "what is
> IMMEDIATELY perceived in an all embracing (emotion
> producing) field" (see Northrop's 1948 "Logic of the
> Sciences & Humanities" and Pirsig's "SODV" which equates
> Dynamic Quality with Northrop's "indeterminate aesthetic
> continuum").
>
> Personally, I don't think the past or future exists
> even from a static point of view (and remember the above
> paragraphs and our principles are static intellectual
> patterns). However, I think you are right to say that from
> a Dynamic viewpoint that the past, present and future are
> all merged into one and there is no such thing as the
> "present" or even time.
If there's no such thing as the present time in Dynamic Quality then how
can Dynamic Quality be equated with the present time?
>
> Diana, I like the quote you chose about the nature of
> reality and zero friends; I certainly do think it must be a
> lot easier to be a mystic sometimes. And I'm sure I'd have
> a lot more friends if I was!
With all respect. I'm sure you know perfectly well that your academic
career would be finished if you claimed to be a mystic.
Finally, when these
> principles are more or less finalized to everyone's
> satisfaction, I suggest it would be a good idea to run
> through them with Pirsig.
Sure, but as they are published on the website and he apparently browses
it regularly I think we can assume that he's already seen them.
Diana
ps Next time you write an essay send it to me for comments ... I bet
I'll find something I don't like about it;-)
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