Lila Squad Jun 98: LS sq/dq split

------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BD9A30.7F5F4660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

hello all =20 while i understand what pirsig is trying to postulate with his sq/dq = philosophy, i feel what i have to say about the subject is better = comprehended if i substitute the words precession for dynamic and chaos = for static, and thereby come up with chaotic quality (static) vs = precessional quality (dynamic). i hope no one will take offense at this = liberty. also if anyone wonders why i use no capitalization, its easier = on my wrists this way. carpal tunnel syndrome prevention, you know. = anyway, back to the point... =20 quality is an elusive and undefinable event which arises in response to = certain causes and conditions present in generalized localities = interlocked with an observer being present to observe these events. it = is not an event if it is not observed relationally as an event. i can = see where it would be inevitable that the question of sentience would = arise at this point, however, and this is an enormous however... =20 i must remember there is no objectivity here in universe. all = experiential events are purely subjective. it has to be observed by each = of us AS INDIVIDUALS before an event can be said to exist relationally = to us as individuals. i will never know if another being is sentient or = not...not even another human being. i assume because i am sentient, that = all humans are sentient.=20

yet, there is no way for me to ever know for sure if this is really true = or not. i can make lists of requirements that anything with sentience = possesses, and say that humans most likely are all sentient because they = fit the list, yet i cannot say that with certainty.=20

and thus i cannot see where it makes a difference if i say everything in = creation is sentient, or if i say only i am sentient. i are saying the = same thing either way. when we are born, we cry that we have come to = this great stage of fools.=20

so, does this mean that to kill a microbe is murder? i dont know, maybe = if i happened to be another microbe it would be! but then, i would be = existing on my keyboard instead of tapping it with fingers and you all = would not exist to me relationally the way you do now! the sanctity of = life depends upon the moralistic viewpoint of the observer. all life is = a manifestation of precessional dynamic quality anyway and death is not = the end, merely a transformation.=20 =20 each precessional quality event has both a potential to expand (to = precess) and to dissolve (to become chaotic). momentum holds the quality = event in time where it can be observed by an observer who picks and = chooses (both consciously and unconsciously) what side of quality to = view the event from by comparing that event to other like events already = experienced by that observer.=20 =20 dynamic precessional quality seems to arise (most of the time) at a 90 = degreeness to the chaotic static background that is the natural state of = universe. a stone dropped into a body of water produces a series of = dynamic precessional waves radiating at a 90 degree angle from the = center of the static event (where the stone and the water meet).=20

these waves radiate outwards and any chaotic static events that they = impinge upon are also effected at a 90 degreeness to the dynamic = precessional waves, thereby regenerating the precessional force = originally present in the stone.=20

dynamic precession has now been transferred to whatever chaotic static = object the waves happen to interlock with, thereby regenerating itself = over and over again until the dynamic has been absorbed by the chaos and = dissipated into smaller and smaller precessional events no longer = observable. it hasnt been lost...its just lost its momentum. =20 the 'split' in this precessional quality to chaotic quality occurs only = because we observe it to occur in relation to the point of the observer = vs the point of the quality event and using this observation, we relate = to the event in terms which we are already familar with. we judge its = quality, in other words. if its quality is judged 'good', we judge that = its precessional dynamic momentum will sustain its precessional = integrity thru the natural chaotic static of universe long enough for = the quality it possesses to be of use to us, or at least do us no harm. = otherwise its judged 'bad'.=20

this precessional dynamic momentum seems to wear down because of the = interrelatedness between the event possessing the dpm and its = environment. little by little the dpm is transferred to chaotic = activities and the original dpm reverts to what seems to be its natural = state of chaos, or static. dynamic precession is never lost, only = transferred.=20

the indian said 'thats a good dog.' if it had been a bad dog, does that = mean it would not possess precessive quality? no, it would mean that = subjectively/relationally wise the bad dog would more resemble a = snarling mean-spiritied cur than a good dog would. the dynamic = precessional quality is still there, its just that our relationship to = it has changed and therefore our judgements of it have also changed. = perhaps the split isnt there, its only our judgement that it is.

i have really rambled on here way too long. any of your thoughts on mine = are appreciated.

------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BD9A30.7F5F4660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

while i understand what pirsig is trying to = postulate with his=20 sq/dq philosophy, i feel what i have to say about the subject is better=20 comprehended if i substitute the words precession for dynamic and chaos = for=20 static, and thereby come up with chaotic quality (static) vs = precessional=20 quality (dynamic). i hope no one will take offense at this liberty. also = if=20 anyone wonders why i use no capitalization, its easier on my wrists this = way.=20 carpal tunnel syndrome prevention, you know. anyway, back to the=20 point...

quality is an elusive and undefinable event which = arises in=20 response to certain causes and conditions present in generalized = localities=20 interlocked with an observer being present to observe these events. it = is not an=20 event if it is not observed relationally as an event. i can see where it = would=20 be inevitable that the question of sentience would arise at this point, = however,=20 and this is an enormous however...

i must remember there is no objectivity here in = universe. all=20 experiential events are purely subjective. it has to be observed by each = of us=20 AS INDIVIDUALS before an event can be said to exist relationally to us = as=20 individuals. i will never know if another being is sentient or not...not = even=20 another human being. i assume because i am sentient, that all humans are = sentient.

yet, there is no way for me to ever know for sure if = this is=20 really true or not. i can make lists of requirements that anything with=20 sentience possesses, and say that humans most likely are all sentient = because=20 they fit the list, yet i cannot say that with certainty.

and thus i cannot see where it makes a difference if = i say=20 everything in creation is sentient, or if i say only i am sentient. i = are saying=20 the same thing either way. when we are born, we cry that we have come to = this=20 great stage of fools.

so, does this mean that to kill a microbe is murder? = i dont=20 know, maybe if i happened to be another microbe it would be! but then, i = would=20 be existing on my keyboard instead of tapping it with fingers and you = all would=20 not exist to me relationally the way you do now! the sanctity of = life=20 depends upon the moralistic viewpoint of the observer. all=20 life is a manifestation of precessional dynamic quality anyway and death = is not=20 the end, merely a transformation.

each precessional quality event has both a potential = to expand=20 (to precess) and to dissolve (to become chaotic). momentum holds the = quality=20 event in time where it can be observed by an observer who picks and = chooses=20 (both consciously and unconsciously) what side of quality to view the = event from=20 by comparing that event to other like events already experienced by that = observer.

dynamic precessional quality seems = to arise=20 (most of the time) at a 90 degreeness to the chaotic static background = that is=20 the natural state of universe. a stone dropped into a body of = water=20 produces a series of dynamic precessional waves radiating at a 90 degree = angle=20 from the center of the static event (where the stone and the water = meet).=20

these waves radiate outwards and any = chaotic=20 static events that they impinge upon are also effected at a 90 = degreeness to the=20 dynamic precessional waves, thereby regenerating the precessional force=20 originally present in the stone.

dynamic precession has now been = transferred to=20 whatever chaotic static object the waves happen to interlock with, = thereby=20 regenerating itself over and over again until the dynamic has been = absorbed by=20 the chaos and dissipated into smaller and smaller precessional events no = longer=20 observable. it hasnt been lost...its just lost its = momentum.

the 'split' in this precessional = quality to=20 chaotic quality occurs only because we observe it to occur in relation = to the=20 point of the observer vs the point of the quality event and using this=20 observation, we relate to the event in terms which we are already = familar with.=20 we judge its quality, in other words. if its quality is judged 'good', = we judge=20 that its precessional dynamic momentum will sustain its precessional = integrity=20 thru the natural chaotic static of universe long enough for the quality = it=20 possesses to be of use to us, or at least do us no harm. otherwise its = judged=20 'bad'.

this precessional dynamic momentum = seems to wear=20 down because of the interrelatedness between the event possessing = the dpm=20 and its environment. little by little the dpm is transferred to chaotic=20 activities and the original dpm reverts to what seems to be its natural = state of=20 chaos, or static. dynamic precession is never lost, only transferred.=20

the indian said = 'thats a good=20 dog.' if it had been a bad dog, does that mean it would not = possess=20 precessive quality? no, it would mean that subjectively/relationally = wise the=20 bad dog would more resemble a snarling mean-spiritied cur than a good = dog would.=20 the dynamic precessional quality is still there, its just that our = relationship=20 to it has changed and therefore our judgements of it have also changed. = perhaps=20 the split isnt there, its only our judgement that it = is.