Magnus Berg (MagnusB@DataVis.se)
Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:37:16 +0100
Hi Squad
> >All patterns are patterns in themselves, not only as intellectual
> >shadows.
>
> And what is a pattern "in of itself"? I'm not going to argue the point
> about intellectual or not. As I said before, I think that I don't need
> to use the word intellectual at all.
>
Drop an iron on your toe. You need not describe it in any way to
experience the ultra low biological value of the situation. That pain
is a biological pattern. It's possible to describe the inorganic
results of the hit, but that doesn't include the pain experience.
But hey, don't drop it too far, I'm not plain mean. :)
> >> It [Morality] is not unconnected to reality, but a part of the
> reality we know.
> >>
> >Who or what is arranging the patterns with the guiding help of
> morality?
> >Pirsig? We? Reality?
>
>
> This is another axiom. In Pirsig's terms, the "natural tendency" of
> any
> system is morality. The more complex the system, the more difficult to
> recognise the tendency. But Pirsig wants us to admit to a genuine
> "value" judgement in defining morality. For something to be right, it
> has to make sense, AND also to FEEL RIGHT (Coherence of Classical and
> Romantic understanding).
>
6-8 billion years ago, a star exploded, possibly destroying planets
sustaining forms of life. Then a few billion years later, the remains
of this star contracted and formed a new star, our sun. 5 billion years
later we appear and start to talk about morality. How can anyone
possibly have imagined 6-8 billion years ago that this horrible event
that perhaps destroyed billions of living creatures was a moral event?
I'd say that every event that is made possible by reality, is a moral
event. Because reality and morality are the same thing. It's impossible
to judge, partly because judgement is also an event inside reality and
we would need to judge the judgement, and then judge the...
> Please define for me the difference between pattern and description.
>
A pattern is a pattern of any level. A description is an intellectual
pattern of another pattern.
> Which is the SODV diagram?
>
http://www.moq.org/forum/emmpaper.html
It's fig 4. on page 13. Note that Pirsig uses the words subjective and
objective here. We think that this is mainly to make the audience
feel more at home. The MoQ was quite new to them at the time.
I mean, I can't stand the taste of tea, I bet you can.
Magnus
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b3 on Thu May 13 1999 - 16:43:28 CEST