glove (glove@indianvalley.com)
Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:42:30 +0100
hello Bodvar and squad
Bodvar wrote:
You hint to the mind as a sorcerer performing tricks to keep up the
delusion of a smooth reality. Yes, that is putting it mildly. I have
earlier referred to Benjamin Libet's experiments which revealed the
same "magic" and must return to it again.
Bodvar, perhaps i do just that as the problem of awareness is obviously much
vaster than i had imagined. it seems i have wandered into some very tough
territory here and am on shaky ground. nonetheless...
Bodvar wrote:
A biological organism - a body - is BiPoV at work: not a body
"containing" such. At that level there is no time or neurologists
:-), only SENSATION. Whether sensations take place 'out there or in
here' or 'before or after' is completely irrelevant: Good sensation
means preservation of life and vice versa.
Then the Social values (SoPoV) grew out of BiPoV. Life's values became
subordinate to a greater good: Society. At that level ideas of time
and neurology are just as absent, there is only EMOTION: it feels good
(safe) to be part of a greater entity and the individual is just a
preserver of society. Bad conscience means that the individual
strays from the common cause.
Finally Intellect (InPoV) grew on top of SoPoV and only here did time
and - eventually - neurology occur. The chief Intellectual pattern
is the separatedness of self from other (from society and from
the physical world, even of a mind separate from the body). It grew
to such proportions that it can be said to be Q-Intellect itself.
Bodvar, i can agree with this analysis with a couple subtle changes...rather
than saying the social layer grows out of the biological layer, i would say
the biological layer enables value systems to form between individual
life-forms for the benefit of all life-forms. these value systems do not
really grow...they are already in place as an underlying factor in
awareness. in the same way, the intellect does not grow out of the social as
such, but rather the social layer enables or values the formation of a
collective awareness of knowledge for the benefit of the masses, which is
already in place by virtue of underlying causal factors allowing
construction of awareness in the first place.
what this process apparently does is restore 'freedom' to the original
dynamic chaos after a state of patterned organization has been imposed upon
it in a sequence of latching. the freedom, or dynamic quality, transcends
the four static quality layers of the MOQ without upsetting the structures
contained therein in an inside-outingly regenerating fashion, which i have
made an attempt to illustrate in my MOQ wimple model (no animation :( yet).
i can see where we can use the MOQ to explain the 'gap' that is present in
Libet's experiments, as well as the rubber hand research. however, in doing
so, we also must admit we are doing it in the context of the Q-intellect
layer, as you have also stated. logically it also follows that awareness
must therefore arise right there...within the Q-intellect, yet we are not
acknowledging the vastness that surrounds the Q-intellect in the form of
dynamic quality...the 5th moral conflict within Pirsig's MOQ, that of
static/dynamic conflict taking place on the outer boundaries of the
intellect, reachable only by dynamic leap means (the reason the brujo is
needed).
that is what my model illustrates, that the Q-intellect is in direct touch
with dynamic quality surrounding and composing the awareness of what is
around us, and that may also be how the manipulation of matter is achieved
by the mind...in a seemingly magical way via neither direct nor indirect
contact, but rather a regenerating type fashion that stretches across space
and time in what has been termed quantum entanglement.
after constructing my learning tool MOQ wimple model, i believe the MOQ must
be considered awareness itself, and therefore awareness is quality itself.
that is why all four layers must be viewed as awareness, although i do
admit, via the Q intellect. i think this solution would solve alot of
previous difficulties in forming an understanding with the MOQ.
best wishes to all,
glove
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