> Hey all,
>
> Well, I would say it is about time we actually see how close we can get to
a
> consensus.
>
> But first, I want to clarify an issue. A few days ago, Bo wrote the
> following and I said I agreed with it 100% while Denis called it a
wallowing
> retreat back to SOM. This occurred in a post where Denis and I were
> supposedly arguing the same side. Let me paste the paragraph of note:
>
> Bo:
> >When concluding as I will below I appeal to your collective goodwill.
> >Theorizing, naming - thinking - about animals and things even about
> >thinking itself - is not going on in an abstract sphere about
> >something more real in another concrete sphere. Q- INTELLECT IS THE
> >ABILITY TO MAKE THE BI-SPHERIC DISTINCTION ITSELF. The highest and
> >most valuable stage that evolution has reached - yet.
>
> I read this as Bo saying that the intellectual level is the creator of the
> spheres. The distinction makes the 'abstract' and the 'concrete' realms.
> This I do agree with 100%. I also agree with Denis though that if Bodvar
> meant that the spheres have independent existence and are 'discovered' by
the
> intellect , that Bo would indeed be prescribing a Cartesian dualism.
>
> Bo?
>
> A key difference in those of us with what I see as the sophist position
> (Marco, Denis and me), and those with the Aristotelian position (????) is
> CREATION vs DISCOVERY. The sophist position is that man created the
levels,
> or substance or atoms or whatever. The Aristotelian position is that it
was
> "out there objectively to be discovered." One position measures the
creation
> by quality, the other primarily measures the discovery by truth.
>
> So let me ask EVERYBODY that contributed this month, and all the lurkers,
two
> questions:
> 1) Are all patterns of value also intellectual patterns?
YES, everything we are talking about is also an intellectual pattern. But it
doesn't mean that truth does not exist: truth is not objectivity, is
inter-subjectivity. When the most (or all ) people agree on something,
that's true. Until a Brujo comes.
> 2) Were the 4 levels of the MOQ discovered or created?
Created, by R. M. Pirsig. Just like gravity law, by Newton.
Marco.
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
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