Re: MD needs

From: Brendan Woodcock (
Date: Sun May 27 2001 - 23:32:05 BST

Hello, All

First off I'd like to say Hi, I'm Brendan, just joined the list, and I can't
belive all the emails!! I missed checking for 3 days and after my USAS,
critresist, and MD listservs sent everything, I had 200+ emails to greet me
this morning, just getting through them all now.

Anyway, I'd like to briefly express my opinion on this, and forgive me if
this has already been expressed or if this disagrees and is not logically
consistent with MoQ. But I think that while, yes, the individual is in the
end the very most important piece to change in society, I believe that to a
great extent society creates the individual. And thus we need the big
programs, the activist social change of thousands working together, not to
change individuals directly as a first priority, but eventually. I think the
current system (and I am speaking from my perspective of a western
capitalist living on the east coast of the US - the only perspective I CAN
speak from) does not facilitate the best way of changing individuals. I
mean, if I look around my direct surroundings (Suburbs, USA) I barely know
the names of people that two hundred years ago I would have depended upon
for survival! I am not advocating a socialist system here, and I know such
has been discussed recently with great disagreement (apologies, I have not
been a quick enough reader to absorb all the arguments and yet I wanted to
send this email out today) but I am saying that the social indifference (as
it seems to me) expressed by those who would wish to say "an individual at a
time," lack the scope of what truly makes most individuals.
So, in conclusion, I really haven't cited Pirsig one bit, nor would I be
well enough read to do so (for I just finished ZAMM and in a flurry joined
this list) nor am I even attempting to say that the opinion I am advocating
would hold to the beliefs of the MoQ. I apologize if this email is against
list rules, hell, i'm just one big bundle of i'm sorry. But I would like, if
possible, some personal emails explaining to me where Quality comes into the
picture socially, whether global, national, local, or individual, and if the
question "Do the benefits that many of us in the USA receive because of the
oppression of millions worldwide outweigh the evils against those people?"
can be answered to me through a MoQ perspective.
Once again, Thanks for your time in reading this,

Brendan Woodcock

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: MD needs

> dean said:
> Changing society as a whole is practically impossible.
> Changing it a person at a time is a more realistic situation. Having been
> exposed to MOQ, we should concentrate on changing ourselves and those
> us. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." Or something
> to that! ;-) Cast your pebble in the pond and let the ripples take care
> themseleves.
> i agree wholeheartedly with that. one of my favorite paragraphs of zamm
> as follows:
> I think that if we are going to reform the world, and make it a better
> to live in, the way to do it is not with talk about relationships of a
> political nature, which are inevitably dualistic, full of subjects and
> objects and their relationship to one another; or with programs full of
> things for other people to do. I think that kind of approach starts it at
> the end and presumes the end is the beginning. Programs of a political
> nature are important end products of social quality that can be effective
> only if the underlying structure of social values is right. The social
> values are right only if the individual values are right. The place to
> improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands, and then
> work outward from there. Other people can talk about how to expand the
> destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I
> think what I have to say has more lasting value.
> (zamm, chap 25, p 297, 25th anniversary paperback edition)
> rasheed
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